In The Garden: Tall Shrub

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by Richard E Masson, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Richard E Masson

    Richard E Masson Active Member

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    A garden in Tunbridge Wells, Kent England purchased or planted a cutting of a shrub some years ago which is now approx 6 feet tall. It has a small white flower which can be seen in the first photo.
    The second photo, which tries to give a general view in a crowded garden and the third the plant base.
    Any ID would be helpful.
    Thank you
     

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  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Looks quite similar to white sweet-clover (Melilotus albus), a Eurasian annual or biennial plant in the pea family.
     
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  3. Richard E Masson

    Richard E Masson Active Member

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    Thank you for this information.
    I had forgotten that in the conversation with the owner she had mentioned that she thought (or she thought she thought!) that it could be in the Pea family.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Since it looks enough like white sweet-clover to in fact be that non-woody plant - one that would not ordinarily be cultivated deliberately - and is right next to another plant there is an implication that this popped up there on its own. And is not the purchased shrub.
     
  5. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Correct English name: White Melilot.
     
  6. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Not every English speaker lives in the Old World, uses Old World common names. Or bookish ones, such as white melilot which is basically the botanical name translated into English.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  7. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Look at the address of the original poster.

    It is an Old World species, so it is the right of the people of the Old World to name it. It is not the prerogative of the USA to rename our native plants for us - high time that Americans got out of this offensive habit.
     
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  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    It is not the prerogative of the USA to rename our native plants for us - high time that Americans got out of this offensive habit.

    Look who's talking - your phrasing wasn't "In Britain we call this white melilot". It was "Correct English name [is]". And unfortunately I am already fully acquainted with your prior (and continuing) relentless telling of American posters on web forums that only Old World common names are "correct". As in it's not silk tree, it's pink siris, it's not box elder, it's ash-leaf maple and so on. Whereas I have never once seen an American tell you that you should be using American common names in Britain.
     
  9. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    You did, in posts #2 and #4. By using it, you are saying that that is the correct name that should be used.

    Also - Melilot is not a "bookish ones, such as white melilot which is basically the botanical name translated into English" - it is the English name (attested back to 1410) that was Latinised for the scientific name by Philip Miller in 1754.
     
  10. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Contributor 10 Years

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    Please guys!!!!
    Enough .
    I hate it when you two start to bicker.
     
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  11. Sundrop

    Sundrop Well-Known Member

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    Why, it is quite interesting dispute. We can learn from people who are not afraid to express their opinion, it is only "Yes men" who are dangerous.
     
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    By using it, you are saying that that is the correct name that should be used

    This is false - I do not ascribe to the highly artificial notion you continue to insist upon that there is a single "correct" common name - in your case very often a Eurocentric one - for each plant species, and that all others that have been used for each kind are "wrong". In this case white sweet-clover, tree clover, honey lotus, Bokhara (tree) clover, Cabul clover and white melilot have all been used. Them being common names no single one of these is more right or wrong than the others - they are not scientific names.
     
  13. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    No - yours is the highly artificial learnt response. Natural human instinct is that a different name = a different item (or, if shown to be the same item, then a different language).
     
  14. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Renowned Contributor UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    "Son? Bob? Are you listening to me, Robert?"

    "Yes, dad. Sorry that I wasn't paying attention, father."

    "It's fine, Bobby, it's fine. You know, Junior, I'm glad you were named after me."

    "I'm glad too, Pops."
     
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  15. teague

    teague Active Member 10 Years

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    False. Only scientific names can be correct, which is why we have them. Calling a common name correct or incorrect is laughable.
     
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  16. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    In your opinion / culture, possibly, though I doubt it in reality. Certainly not in mine, nor that of anyone sensible who knows that names have meaning. If names have no meaning, communication is impossible.

    If I called the plant in the photo below a Bird Cherry, you'd say I'd made a silly identification mistake and correct it, wouldn't you?
     

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  17. teague

    teague Active Member 10 Years

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    No, I'd say that you are correct in calling it a Bird Cherry, if that's the name you know it by. But that's the trouble with common names; it could have a different common name in the next town and another halfway across the world...and all would be equally valid.
     
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  18. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    I don't believe you for one moment ;-)
     
  19. Margot

    Margot Well-Known Member

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    Michael F - do you think people in non-English-speaking countries should also use your chosen English names?
     
  20. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    If they're speaking e.g. French, I'd expect they'd use the official French name, if e.g. Czech, then the official Czech name, and likewise for other languages. As an aside, it isn't "your chosen English names", it is the official English names used by the English naming authority (Botanical Society of Britain and Ireland [BSBI], for plants native to the region).
     

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