Is this Washingtonia filifera?

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by neonrider, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Please tell me, is this a Washingtonia filifera?

    http://www.equay.com/temp.jpg

    And if so, could you please mark with red the "hastula"?

    Thank you very much.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011
  2. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    the hastula is the small vegetative trait found at the intersection between the petiole and the frond. Generally it is about two inches across - the length can vary by species. Photo not detailed enough to see the hastula. Also you might take a look at the other thread sited above, and look at Google images of hastula.

    on another note, does not look to me like this plant has the characteristic curly frills found on the leaf margin of filifera.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011
  3. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    Could you please mark the exact location of the palm where I should photograph up close? I'm sorry, I do not understand what and where "petiole" and "frond" exactly are.
     
  4. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    please browse Google a bit...
     
  5. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    Is this W. filifera?

    http://www.equay.com/palm66.jpg

    How about this one?

    http://www.equay.com/palm63.jpg

    I always thought the first one (#66) is a W. filifera. It grows between Columbia and Lexington in South Carolina (Zone 7B or 8A). The second one grows in Columbia, SC amd I have no idea what it is. In this case I'm talking the overall look of the palm.
     
  6. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    Yes, but isn't this forum for clearing things up without using Google? In such case everyone would leave the forum and go read Google. ;-)
     
  7. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    Interesting, cause i also thought that this palm (8 foot) does not have enough curly threads (not curly enough, not dense enough threads) on it's leaves. Also I think the leaves are too brightly coloured in order to be a W. filifera. As other sites describe a W. filifera has grey-dark-green colour to its leaves.
     
  8. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    hastula is my focus - not the other traits (which to an expert would be diagnostic).

    Neither of these look like filifera to me - but, need a better pic of the frond. (use a telephoto lens, or pick up a fallen frond...or....)
     
  9. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    Google is used by all of us! as I recall Wikipedia has some good images of these plant parts.
     
  10. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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  11. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Re: Help ID Palm Trees, California

    You run down the pictures of each hastula and present them here and I will respond. The photo labeled "Serenoa repens abaxial hastula of blue-green leaf" is the best photo from the site you listed - abaxial and adaxial refer to whether the hastula is on either the top or the bottom of the leaf; be consistent with which side of the leaf you show me (or show both sides...).
     
  12. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Re: Is this a Washingtonia Palm??

    I will try to take a close up photo of these and will post here. So far I have about 1-2 year old W-Filiferas growing in pots, which I can send a photo of.
     
  13. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Here's a petiole, frond, hastula of a Washingtonia that grows in BARNWELL, SC:

    http://www.equay.com/palm31.jpg

    Is this w-filifera, w-robusta or w-filibusta?
     
  14. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    These Washingtonia palm trees grow in North, SC near Columbia, SC in an USDA zone 8A:

    http://www.equay.com/Palms080.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms083.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms084.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms085.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms087.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms088.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms090.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms092.jpg
    http://www.equay.com/Palms093.jpg

    I invite you to identify these palms as well not only by their overall look, but also by their hastula, petioles and fronds.
     
  15. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    I found a great page to identify W. filifera:

    http://itp.lucidcentral.org/id/palms/palm-id/Washingtonia_filifera.htm

    There's also a comparison table on this page, but I still don't get it how to exactly id a pure W. filifera:

    http://www.floridata.com/ref/w/wash_fil.cfm

    They should ILLUSTRATE everything to precision. I took a look at the ones I got and I can't find a "tawny coloured patch at the basal sheath (hastula)" even if mine do not look like a W. filifera and then they say that petioles of young palms are relatively unarmed for a W. filifera and it all depends on that "relatively unarmed" - it's like you can see with your naked eye how much fat is in the milk - not. Illustrating everything precisely is the key.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011
  16. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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  17. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    All of the close-up photos look like filifera - and most are a good shot of the costa.

    Need to track down the costa and hastula for both W. robusta and W. filifera. You will then be able to compare them and proceed with great confidence.
     
  18. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Okay - took a long look at both plants side x side. There are many disclaimers (e.g., how many reliably identified plants have been studied...) HOWEVER I offer these observations:
    1. filifera has fuzz between the teeth, a bigger skirt, the hastula has a longer tip, and the costa both tapers slowly and has hairs in-between the leaf folds, the trunk is a larger dia and not swollen at the base.
    2. robusta has no fuzz between the teeth, a smaller skirt, the hastula tip is shorter, the costa tapers rapidly and has hairs on the ridge of the leaf folds, the trunk dia is smaller and is swollen at the base.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  19. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Perhaps an example of making text tables from books rather than tables made from a carefully compiled collection of photo data.
     
  20. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Doesn't photo # 090 have a coloured tawny patch along the "V" junction between the front and the fistula (stem) which would make it more of a W. robusta?
     
  21. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Large, adult Washingtonias are easier to id than young to medium ones that are up to 10 ft. overall height. When I grow both from seed, the WR germinated with lighter green leaf and were more susceptible to cold damage below 35F, while WF made through winter better, but some seedlings died from overwatering, while WR were fine with overwatering.

    If you would like I can take photos of all three: WR, WF and WFR which I have in pots at 1 to 2 years of age. I'm gonna do that next week or perhaps later during this weekend.
     
  22. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    the costa tapers slowly - in my estimation this characteristic trumps the expression of the tawny patch.

    hope you get a chance to compare the suite of characteristics
     
  23. neonrider

    neonrider Active Member

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    Regarding fuzz between teeth - good observation. Photo # 083 - no fuzz, these probably are FiliBusta hybrids, I suspect. They must be made for the East Coast, to withstand more wet and more cold.
     

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