Is this a 40 Year Old Datura Plant

Discussion in 'Plants: Identification' started by Jedi808, Jan 14, 2021.

  1. Jedi808

    Jedi808 New Member

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    I am trying to prove my dad had a Datura plant for a court case. This plant really messed me up as a child. This picture is all the evidence I have.

    Is the plant on the right a 40 year old Datura plant? I'm sorry I don't have any leaves. I seam to remember that this was the plant but I may be mistaken.
     

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  2. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

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    Welcome to the Forum!

    Your question interests me strangely. I am intrigued!
    Alas, I must give you a definite...I doubt it.

    First of all, I have difficulty believing that Datura would be cultivated as a house plant. (At least, by anyone sane.) Second, as you note, without leaves or more detailed pix (or really stunning botanical ID skills) naming this plant is next to impossible. Somehow I disbelieve that even a mature Datura would grow like that. ---Your pic does show a quasi-cage around the plant...could be a cat deterrent (beautiful cat, by the way!) and/or a human one, a sort of warning to keep away from it. ???

    When you say this plant 'messed you up'...? How so? In a physical sense? There are many house plants that, if ingested, can pack a wallop in terms of toxins----Dieffenbachia, pothos, Spathiphyllum for ex. Chew on these and you will wish you hadn't. Perhaps another plant, not Datura, is the one with which you had a bad encounter. Perhaps you did run afoul of Datura outside, and remember another plant as the culprit. ???

    Now, if you remember hallucinations and delirium...well, that memory might be of Datura ingestion.

    So, what I'm saying here is this: no, I don't think that the plant in the photo is Datura. If anyone can ID it, you will find that person here.
    I am hoping that some of our ace members will give you the benefit of their vast knowledge of plant morphology and characteristics and provide insight into this botanical mystery.

    Good luck with the case!
     
  3. Margot

    Margot Generous Contributor

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    Maybe if you lose the court case, you can write a book. Good luck!
     
  4. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

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    Now that Jedi808 has been wished luck twice, success is assured.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Addendum to my previous post:
    When I first looked at the photo, I thought Plumeria, after shedding its leaves. All parts of it are considered mildly toxic, and it has an irritating sap.
    How say you, Jedi?
     
  5. Jedi808

    Jedi808 New Member

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    I posted it in on another site. It's a brugmansia which is a type of datura or very similar. When I say this messed up as a child, I mean that I believe this plant had partially led to a drug problem. My dad had told me it produced very powerful hallucinations which caused me to fantasize about hallucinating at a very young age.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2021
  6. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Contributor 10 Years

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    Having read more on the other forum, the age of this plant is central to the legal case...so is critical.
    Is this mystery plant 40 years old?
    ie....Was this THE very plant in the home when jedi 808 was a child that affected him/her so very badly.

    Whether this is Plumeria or Datura I do not believe it is large enough to be a 40 year old plant.
    It appears to be a mere youngster...just slightly taller than the table with thin stems.
    Pic below are your plant trimmed...which show leaves bottom right.

    Togata ..my thoughts were also Plumeria...looking at tip top right...my pics below.
    others say Datura/Brugmansia.

    . 22157_337972008676_6325224_n.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
    togata57 likes this.
  7. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Datura / Brugmansia should have opposite branching in terminal stems -- not seeing that readily in the provided photograph.
     
  8. Margot

    Margot Generous Contributor

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    I think we 'experts' on this Forum should be mindful of giving opinions that could be evidence in a court case. It sounds like Jedi808 is bringing a suit against his/her father for injuries incurred from possible ingestion of Datura seeds or ??? when Jedi was a child. Should we really be weighing in on this? Who wants to be called to testify?

    Datura stramonium poisoning in children | Request PDF
     
  9. Tom Hulse

    Tom Hulse Active Member 10 Years

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    Yes this is definitely a Brugmansia, 100%. There is a low percentage of branches that survive pruning and damage in a poorly cultivated plant like this, so it's hard to see opposite branching when dormant. There is no such thing as a 40-year-old Datura, they are much more herbaceous and do not form woody trunks like this. They only last for a year or two. The plant shown in the first post by the OP is in it's second year from seed or cutting, or at very most 3rd year. No more. Not anywhere near 40 years old. These are very fast-growing and short-lived trees. It's unlikely there is even one 40-year-old Brugmansia in all of North America, although it is possible in it's South American native ranges. I know of a some in California that made it into the almost-30 year range, but eventually succumbed to disease as they got older. Both genera are poisonous and hallucinogenic. It would be a crime of child abuse to grow these anywhere toddlers could have access and take a bite. Btw, I served for several years as the ICRA International Registrar for all of Brugmansia and Datura, and I've grown these for decades. Sorry I'm in the US and can't come to testify. :)
     
  10. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Having read all the posts I can add from my 30 year experience with British courts that they will only accept expert evidence from a recognised body or person. ( Canada maybe different but I doubt it). So anything on this thread will be opinion only. But I understand the concern re @Margot Margot's posting, as civil suits can be a nightmare.

    @Tom Hulse Tom's posting with his vast experience of this plant can point the way for @Jedi808 to give to his solicitors to follow up.
     

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