Helping with Homework

Here's your chance for input. The issue of helping students with homework comes up every once in a while, and it is difficult to come up with a clear policy that works in every instance (since sometimes the name is needed for marks, sometimes the name is needed for the "sense of completion", sometimes it isn't and the student just wants to know, sometimes it is necessary but isn't for marks, etc. etc.)

 

Since we have 3 possible options, let's say a vote of 42% will carry the day.

 

My reaction would be to give help, but make it limited to hints and advice on how to find out, rather than simple straight answers. Not sure how that fits in the poll - maybe "Only with admin approval"?

 

I chose "Only with Admin approval and I agree with Michael, don't tell them straight out. But like someone said, Lila I think, they can just put in there title, please id this plant, with nothing about homework, and we all would have no hesitation in providing an id.

Ed

 

I wish to echo michael and Ed as these people have asked for help and it is no different from a gardener asking for help. I am not saying do the project but we should be stimulating the interest in plants not turning people away.

 

i voted no.

there are two purposes to school projects. 1) to learn about something 2) to learn how to do the research.

posting on a forum and waiting for someone to give you the answers is cheating. and it defeats the second purpose of it all.

and just as i clicked submit, i thought of something.

if they've done the research and are looking for clarification that they've reached the correct conclusion, there's nothing wrong with saying 'yes, you've got it correct'

and that thought would go with 'admin approval' so i guess my no needs to be changed.

in other words, if they are only looking for their own research to be clarified as correct or incorrect before they submit the project for grading, then that would be okay with me. and then maybe a hint in the right direction if what they've come up with is incorrect.

 

I vote yes. Isnt asking someone that knows the answer to help you out doing research? I am not looking for a battle on the subject but in my experience if someone comes to me in the garden center when I am working and asks for help with a school project, I do whatever I can do foster their interest and help them achieve their goal, information wise that is.

Why should it be any different online? This is the current medium of information gathering, I couldnt tell you the last time I went to a library to read an encyclopedia to answer a question I had.

I think those folk that regularly answer questions could easily decide how much information is reasonable to give up to a simple question, we dont need to be exhaustive but certainly an individual could be prodded in the right direction if immediate answer divulgence (is that a word?) seems counter productive to learning. How many of the answers given on the forum to brief questions cannot be answered with a simple, pointed google or other search engine search in the first place?

Any teachers in our midst that have thoughts about this topic? Would you consider asking a question at an online forum 'cheating' vs other methods of information gathering?


my .02

 

I voted yes - I think I pointed out somewhere else here that asking us is very much like finding a local expert and asking them, which is a legitimate research practice. We are more like one of the best international plant-nut run help desks of the internets; I don't view asking us as cheating.

However, I'm with Ed and Micheal in that I do think that for things that are obviously for school credit should be answered cryptically.

 

That seems contradictory, we should answer but we should answer in code?

There must be a happy medium methinks.

 

Allow me to clarify - I was more trying to get at that when it's obviously a school project to identify the plants, we should be more gently pointing them in the right direction for further personal research than simply giving them the answers outright.

Exempla Gratis: "What's the full name of this common flower for my school project?"
I'd advocate saying something like "Check out members of the genus Taraxicum."
and not
"oh, that's a Dandilion, Taraxicum officianale.")

 

I vote yes. Of course it depends on the questions. We are here to help. Some questions posted in this forum indicate that someone has done their research and more information is needed. I would have no hesitation to answer those questions.

 

I votes yes. Computers are a great source for info now days. Why not take full advantage! Answering a few questions to help, is really just help. Its not like you are completing the project for the student. You were just part of the research.

 

sounds reasonable enough. I think with ID questions a leading answer may be more helpful to the student to further their research rather than provide them an end point.

 

My question is what kind of students are we talking about?

College? Or grade and high school?

If it's a research project, they are still going to have to list a source - or should. So an answer should not be a problem.

If it's merely finding an answer to a question, they are going to have to find the answer somewhere. So whether they sought it from a dictionary, or from a person here, how much difference between the two is there?

It would not quite be the same as handing their paper to someone else to fill in all the blanks.

If they ask on a forum, that is a certain amount of effort.

 

From a Reference librarian point of view I think it is legitimate they use this as a source of information BUT they need to also be encouraged to look further as suggested above. It is important they develop search skills. I suspect these assignments are given out for that very reason. So I say yes give help but not the blunt answer.

Liz

 

I vote yes, help them, for all the reasons given by other members above but also because it takes us out of the role of police or detectives...ie, we may answer this one but not that one based only on how opaque or transparent the questioner is.

Whatever the outcome, I'd like the rule clearly stated. If we're not helping, let anyone looking at the forum know in advance by being able to read the rule. It also gives us a reference to refer them to; the "I know but I'm not telling" is really embarassing (to this member, any way) and doesn't represent the forum is very "professional."

 

Hm! Interesting thread! (I'm usually only in the "plant ID section", so I missed it... :( YESYESYES of course YES!!!

http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=37764&page=2

Because:

1. Every (not extra stupid) student can wright a thread as a "hobby-gardener", and then can get a plant ID…

2. Could be that somebody needs the names, because WANTS TO LEARN SOMETHING!!! I think it’s great, when somebody wants to learn some plant names… I don't mind who and why (for example for a mark...) I'm just happy! Because lots of people are totally uninterested in botany, nature, conservation, etc. ... :(

3. A simple homework (or a mark) means nothing… no matter if a student can do it, or not… nobody will be a good botanist (or anything else...), just because his stupid homeworks were well done… If somebody wants to know the plants really good (and get a job as a botanist), then has to spend a lot of time with plants, plant ID, scientific books, etc. (And this works well just when he is botany-maniac, and this is his hobby also…)

4. Nobody can start ID plants without a "basic plantname datebase" in his mind... you have to know well at least 2-300 plants, and it's names, before starting TO LEARN HOW TO ID a plant. Nobody can say: Oh, it's something in the Lamiaceae!, if don't knows 1-2 similar (for example: Salvia) species... So I think we can say exactly the species to expand this "basic datebase"!!! :)))


Sorry, but I have to say I can't understand why is it a huge question at all?! I'm a member of several botany/garden/plant ID forums, but this means nowhere a problem!!! (Only here...) On other forums, if somebody needs a plant ID, then can get a plant ID... that's all... and I think that's great! :)

 

I'd like to know how this form of assistance is viewed by UBC's faculty. After all UBC is an educational institution. Perhaps Daniel could broach the subject with the committee responsible for student academic conduct. The answer and the reasoning behind it could suggest a course of action that would be appropriate to students at all levels.

 

My vote would be yes, but only to the limit of offering places to look for the answer. Suggesting a scientific journal or even a website where the student can find the answer with some effort would seem to be an educational adventure to me. But certainly not just blurting out an answer.

 

Having just spent the last hour explaining parabolas to my grade 10 daughter - I could not resist explaining ellipses and hyperbolas and conic sections in general but I think I was starting to lose my audience, although whispering chambers and parabolic mikes did perk up a few ears - I am really tuned into homework.

Most classes in grade school consist of information memorizing - physics and math being notable exceptions - and homework is just pointless busy work (my grade 10 daughter actually generated some colored thing a week ago - coloring should stop by grade 3, even she thinks), and so I do not really care that we may be doing their homework for them. It is often assigned just to placate the legion of parents who think that homework is an end in itself, or - more commonly - who refuse to consider whether it does or does not serve a purpose.

Also, some possible answers require us to know facts about the questioner that we cannot hope to get except by direct questions which are very unlikely to elicit truthful answers. Like: Is this for a project ? (No of course not I am merely interested); what grade are you in? (grade 2, I am very young and need lots of help) ...

Remember kids, keep a smile on your lips and a song in your heart while you are smashing the state. Or something like that.

 

Lila Pereszke had a good point. Even if its decided against helping, its not hard to become a member of the forum. You wouldn't even know someone was a student if they didnt want you to know.

 

To reply to Junglekeeper, this is the closest relevant policy I could find (and doesn't directly address the issue):

UBC Policy 85: Scholarly Integrity

 

Holey Moley, everyone does have an opinion on this one. Perhaps everyone who has responded has had varying experiences with homework and completion. I'm a high school teacher, and I don't mind if my students get help. At least the students who ask for help are doing the homework. You would not believe the high percentage of students now-a-days who simply do not do any homework. There are educational gurus who say homework is an issue since many students choose not to compete it, so why beat your head on the wall and assign it. The question of whether to help with homework is too complex for a simple yes or no answer. As other responders have said, it depends on the age, grade, subject and the purpose. If it is a summative evaluation, then no you shouldn't help since this assessment is to see what the student has learned over the course of a unit. But, if the homework is practice, or formative assessment, then it is my opinion that the more help and practice a student has, the more successful and confident they will become when they are faced with a summative task.

 

I voted "yes".
I have three teenage boys, two of them still in high school and the youngest is still inundated with homework and "projects". Anything we could offer here would be well short of "doing it for them" and could possibly spark or fan the flames of some interest, surely a worthy outcome. I'd be really surprised if a teacher ever saw anything like "Ralph from the UBCBG" listed in a bibliography, but perhaps something I could contribute would lead a student to a "proper" source like "Plant Propagation by Hartmann & Kester".

Ralph

 

Hm... yes, but this is uncontrollable, when we should help, and when we shouln't... :(

BUT:
I'm also a student, and at my (both) university are very good plant ID exams!!! :) If the teacher wants to see what the student has learned about plant ID, then:

-there are 20 little cutted plant branches on a table (if they are for example garden plants, or weeds so it's not a damage to cut them...) and you have to say, what plants are they! Immediately, without books, or internet, or UBC, or anything else... and every mistake means minus one mark, so 4 wrong IDs, then "game over"... :) And the "next game" is the retake exam...

-the same, but there are plant photos (if they are rare, protected species...)

I think both method will be good for the UBC students too, and then this "help or not" question is no problem anymore, because a homework means really nothing, but the exams are hard... :)

(Muhahaha, the other day the teachers, and now the students "will eat me"... :)))