Green, red, yellow!

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Cattwooduk, Apr 25, 2022.

  1. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I've created myself a bit of a puzzle for my front garden, so it's time for a group puzzle game

    My plan had been to plant 3 trees, giving green, yellow and red colour in summer, changing to yellow, orange and red in Autumn. Spring colour doesn't matter so much.

    The garden gets full sun from 10am onwards, so cultivars are a bit more limited.

    So far I have an Osakazuki which will become the big main tree eventually providing a little more shade and the other 2 trees will be kept smaller. Osakazuki providing the dazzling red/crimson in autumn, and green in summer.

    I also have a summer gold... I believe these stay gold/yellow I autumn? So this will be my summer yellow, and hopefully autumn yellow/gold.

    So the last one is the tricky one - it needs to be red, and retain some amount of red in full sun, turning to orange in autumn.

    I already have either a red pygmy or a garnet in my collection, but the garnet goes a little more red than orange, and the pygmy goes a little more green/bronze in summer but does have a nice burnt orange autumn colour.

    Another option I thought of was perhaps an orangeola?
    Does anyone else have any ideas how to piece these together?
     
  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    For a tree that will keeps red all Summer in my garden is Atropurpureum. As long as it gets full sun it will stay red. Autumn colours are a lovely orange. Inexpensive as well to buy, which is always a bonus for a nice maple.
    Acer palmatum 'Atropupureum'
     
  3. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Oh course! Rather annoyingly the two bigger ones I had were both sold last year, to brother in law and father in law.

    If I end up going for something I don't already have it just means finding a new home for some of what I do have sat around. I've got quite a few trees I picked up cheap or small to grow on with no real plan.

    I've also got a Trompenburg which I didn't pay much attention to so can't remember it's autumn colour? If I remember right though it came from a bloodgood so probably red?
     
  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Understood and yes Trompenburg is red in the Autumn.
     
  5. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Just had a look through your thread, lovely atro you have! Looks a similar size to the one I sold. You are right, they do seem to be somewhat overlooked/undervalued as just a red version of your average palmatum... Probably why I sold both of mine!
     
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  6. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Not a palmatum, but Acer tataricum ssp. ginnala is green, then yellow in autumn. At the moment, I can't think of any maple species that is red in summer, then orange in autumn.

    And... So you want a "Rastafarian garden" ?
     
  7. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Well the idea was to try and get a real contrast all through the year so each one highlights the other.
    I had considered the red pygmy or orangeola because the foliage is also completely different, but I'm liking the idea of an atropurpureum.
     
  8. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Then, maybe you should not focus only on "palmatums", but also other species, even trees or shrubs that are not maples...
     
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  9. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Blasphemy!!

    The hedge along the front of the property is a speckled laurel so will be the backdrop, and the plan is to underplant the 3 maples with a carpet of juniper squamata 'tropical blue'.
     
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  10. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    <LOL> OK, then. I love people who stand their ground.

    PS : at least you're not trying to buy a blue maple... ;0)
     
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  11. MapleZen

    MapleZen Active Member

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    That's interesting, as this hasn't been my experience. I've always thought of atropuprpureum as less reliable than Bloodgood or Emperor One in terms of consistency and durable of the red coloration. Many of the atropurpureums in my area start looking a muddled green by late summer, even in full sun.
     
  12. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Might be location @MapleZen, the two that keep their reds well in my garden are Atropurpureum and Skeeters Broom and better than my Bloodgood and Emperor One. But I do agree that a lot of the reds do go a greeny / red colour in Summer if they don't get enough sunlight. Bit perhaps in our case it's a continent thing!!! Lol.
     
  13. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Atropurpureum has been used as a catch all term for many different red/purple leaf selections so not all are created equal and some will hold their colour much better than others and/or have different fall colour. The continent comment is apt as two nurseries 10 miles apart might sell something different as Atropurpureum, let alone a few thousand miles apart!
     
  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Totally agree M, it's also becoming very obvious on the forum with other cultivars in different counties in our little country showing quite a lot of differences.
    Atropurpureum being a non grafted maple is proving the most variable of all.
     
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  15. Worldly_Wrangler

    Worldly_Wrangler Active Member

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    We have the same problem in the US, except here it is with the name Bloodgood. There are many red leaved Japanese maples labeled as Bloodgood here that are seedling grown.
     
  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That is the problem @Worldly_Wrangler and unless you are an enthusiast like us who look for the graft, then people buy and accept the name Bloodgood.
     
  17. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    I guess it makes sense - even from within the same cultivar you get variations. If you take 50 cuttings from the same tree and got 50 new grafted trees, they'll all have tiny variations before you even factor in local climate differences.
    Then if you've got something like an atro which as was pointed out, is a catch all for 'un-named red papmatum', then there is going to be quite a mix.

    I found the one I had and sold did get more green on the inner parts which were more shaded.
     
  18. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I almost quit when we got to the blue maple, but stuck with it! :P

    Don't know the answer off hand, of a red that goes orange. Someone should make up a spreadsheet with the following columns:

    Cultivar | Spring Color | Summer Color | Autumn Color

    That would be super useful to have. I often try to plan for autumn color, but it's much harder than spring and summer somehow.

    I thought I'd point out a couple of things:

    Sometimes. But more often bright red. The thing is they vary by tree, so it's really hard to plan for.

    "unnamed red palmatum" (sorry dropped the ability to quote somehow)

    'Atropurpureum' is also a real, and old, cultivar. It is excellent, slightly changing color during the year while holding a great red, with fab autumn color (scarlet). Given the opportunity, it should be planted, but you really have to have the right source.

    Otherwise, indeed "atropurpureum" e.g. A. amoenum v. atropurpureum (or more properly f. purpureum) is a catch all, sadly, under which endless red seedlings -- of mixed quality and characteristics; maybe some that go orange in autumn -- have been sold.
     
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  19. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Currently I've only planted the Osakazuki. The colours are fairly nicely contrasted though. All the logs and stumps were from a fallen tree someone wanted shifting last week and I haven't had time to get rid of them yet, so just threw them around for decoration. They might even stay.

    Since starting to consider just the 3 trees in that corner, now I'm alread wondering how many others I can get into this space. I may put Moonrise in there, my Inabre Shidare, and then Kamagata when it arrives. These should all do ok full sun I think. Eventually the Osakazuki will provide a bit of shade after 2/3pm.

    The issue is on the left of the garden running across ours into next door is the sewage pipe and I don't think it's very deep from the surface. It's also very old, eek. I think I may get someone to come and re-line the inside of it with that plastic stuff they can inflate along it. That should keep it safe from roots I hope!

    Once that's done I will build a raised sleeper bed on the left under the window just out of shot, above the pipe route.
     

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  20. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Right, are there any other yellow maples that will take full sun?

    I do have an Anne Irene but it's already planted out in the back garden, and it's very similar to Summer Gold which will also be out the front. If it looks like I'll struggle for options then I may end up moving the Anne Irene to the front as well.

    The other couple I have which might work are Jordan and Moonrise. Moonrise is more green/orange/red at the moment but could still work. I feel like being a pretty open full sun position Jordan might struggle a little though?
    Also the front garden road runs North-South with low fences, so windy days might be a bit of trouble for the shirasawanums. Having said that the front hedge is pretty tall and thick so if Moonrise/Jordan went against the hedge where the Red Pygmy currently is then it would be a bit more sheltered and only get direct sun until about 2pm.

    My original plan for 3 out there has become getting the following all planted up in a staggered plan -
    Osakazuki, Summer's Gold, Red Pygmy, Kamagata, Sensu, Inabre Shidare, Jerre Schwartz, [yelllow option]
     
  21. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Summer Gold is my choice for you @Cattwooduk. It takes full sun perfectly. I know you already have it, but it is so good. If you want something else, then Anne Irene takes the sun well. Not as yellow as Summer Gold, but not bad.
     
  22. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    Yes the summer gold is staying, it was more a question if there are any others. I don't see summers gold very often, in fact I don't think I've seen one in a garden centre for a couple of years around here!
     
  23. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    IME it's always better to wait to get a good plant. If you want another 'Summer Gold', why not order one from Pat at Hippo now? You can pick it up next year.

    How about A. amplum 'Gold Coin', which is the most beautiful yellow, and yellow autumn color. Not an aggressive grower, you could keep it small if necessary.
     
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  24. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Do you know where to get this one in the UK E ? I agree it is absolutely beautiful.
     
  25. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ah, sadly no. I'd start with the plant finder (of course), then call Mr. Harris at Mallett Court. If he doesn't have it, he may know where to source it. Otherwise you might find it in Boskoop at someone like Mark Bulk.

    But it's a hard plant to find, especially a real one.
     
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