Early Spring?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by AlainK, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. Nik

    Nik Generous Contributor

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    French tarragon sprouts are the only sign of spring here so far. It is interesting that plants that originate from warmer climates wake up earlier than optimal (and suffer a setback) while plants from colder areas of the world are late to leaf out and perfectly safe.
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Native is always best!!!!!!!!! But we all love plants and trees from all over the world. It is no wonder so many people have problems. But isn't it strange that you very rarely see members of the forum having issues with native plants.
     
  3. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    @Shin-Deshojo , may I ask where you obtained 'Shin kotohime'? I'm not familiar with it, so looked and found that the original source is Yano, 2002. He mentioned the spring flush is "bright red", and in his picture the margins look very roundly indented. Yours is very pretty, and of course there's a big difference between young and older plants anyway.

    The only maple newly in leaf here is A. buergerianum ssp formosanum, but there are another few close: A. morifolium from Japan, A. rubescens, even A. okomatoanum newly arrived. As usual the pots are ahead of the ground.

    @Nik I can't seem to grow tarragon outside here, except as an annual! But some of the very cold climate plants also leaf out very early, A. mandshuricum, or B, platphylla are good examples here, the latter leafs out early every Feb and then freezes off. After 10 years or so, it's about 40cm high!

    -E
     
  4. Nik

    Nik Generous Contributor

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    Hi @emery , for me the trick (after several years of utter failure) was less water. It is basically unattended in the yard. We love French cuisine and we use it very often, but it is not reliably present in the stores close by, hence my desire to grow it myself.
    Your temperatures should me milder than ours, so this is not the issue.
    On the other hand, I cannot grow any lavender in our yard, I think it is a soil pH problem. Oh well, win some, lose some, as the saying goes...
     
  5. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Rising Contributor

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    @emery ,
    I got it from Philippe de Meyer 3 or 4 years ago at his nursery *** FONTIN ***

    I know he sometimes get stock of maples from Dick van der Maat, or is it Esveld nursery ? (I am always confused when it comes to those two 'entity', are they linked ? If someone can educate me) so the one i have is probably from there.

    I do need to let it grow and observe it some years before I can really tell the differences with kotohime.
    I have only noticed so far that the leaves emerges with a red tone more pronounced than kotohime does and that the color of the leaves last a little longer before turning green but that's all I can say.
    The graft was young and fragile when I acquired it and I almost lost it so this will be the first season I can enjoy it as he seems to be recovering and getting more vigor now.

    I opened a thread where I will update pictures during the season and hopefully the next years if you are interested.

    Acer palmatum 'Shin Kotohime'
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    What a great nursery. So many species and cultivars to choose from.
     
  7. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Rising Contributor

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    Good morning D,
    Yes as I told you in another post, it's worth the visit, as they specialize in rare trees, and they are very friendly and passionated with good knowledge and experience about trees in general.They are always open to take the time to share a good discussion, the nursery is in their own garden so you almost feel you are in a non commercial environment, no employes and a very quiet place in a small village.
    Unfortunately they do not ship, unless I am unaware of some exceptions, but I know he travel to many plants festivals or events to sell his trees ( I think Belgium,France,and maybe Italy, Germany etc...i don't know about the U.K. but i can tell you they have family in Ireland that they do visit sometimes so...you never know if a meeting could happen if anyone from U.K. would be interested to get in contact with him.
    Not sure he will keep the nursery open for many more years as he told me.
    It will be a sad lost for my region as they are not many alternatives and so specific nurseries like that one.
     
  8. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    @Shin-Deshojo , Esveld and Dick van der Maat are in no way connected. I further saw that Cor (Esveld) did have it in his catalog for a time, and looking at the graft on yours, that is where it came from. Cor and Dick's grafting don't look the same, Dick does all his own and they are very reliable, Cor contracts out grafting with more mixed results. They usually look fine after a few years, as does yours.

    It does look like a very interesting nursery, thanks for sharing.

    @Nik I am sure it's the wet that kills our tarragon, though we always plant in a pretty dry place and also grow big rosemarys and thym. Maybe just the bad soil! :) Glad it works for you though.
     
  9. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Rising Contributor

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    @emery ,
    Thank you for clarifying that for me and providing those grafting informations.
    Appreciate it.
     
  10. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That is a shame, but at least he has supplied some healthy looking trees in his time, that will go on for many years to come. A very good legacy IMO.
     
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  11. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    It's a very dull day here in Southern England, not that warm either, only 7°C at 3pm. But whilst out doing some little jobs ready for my busy weekend pruning,repotting etc etc, I saw my Little Princess just on the turn. It cheered me up no end, but it did cross my mind about the -2 °C we are getting tomorrow night. Urghhh !!!
    Little princess 701.JPG
     
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  12. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    It started as a bright sunny day then got cloudy at noon. Manacing black clouds at 4, I though we would have a shower of rain, but it must have fallen elsewhere.

    I don't think we'll have serious frost here, maybe Monday morning. From the 10th and on, apparently rain, rain and more rain.

    Now it looks like every one of them is ready.

    Lil' Princess :

    acerp-mapi02_210304a.jpg

    Koto Hime
    :

    acerp-koto-hime_210304a.jpg

    Acer buergerianum :

    acerb02_210304a.jpg

    Acer elegantulum :

    acer-eleg02_210304a.jpg

    Acer morifolium :

    sem_acer-morifolium_210304a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
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  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Yes the same here Alain, but from the 8th. As long as the frosts stay away for those tender new shoots.
     
  14. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Prunus and dark clouds at 4 :

    prunus-pissard_210304a.jpg

    (In the background, you can see that the big Zelkova is starting to bud out. And at the top of the pruns the curves of a Wisteria that I let grow on the prunus : it makes a contrast between the red leaves of the Prunus and the green ones of the Wisteria. I even had a few flowers last year.)
     
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  15. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    @AlainK I can't believe how far out stuff is there! The only thing we have is A. buergerianum ssp formosanum (haven't had a chance to get a pic) and all the little sikkimense. Lots of stuff ready to pop though, may see some leaves on A. velutinum seedlings tomorrow or the next day.

    Seeds are in a cold frame, we have -3C forecast for fri into saturday. I'll probably bring some things in tomorrow.

    Are you sure that's morifolium and not rubescens?
     
  16. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Well i have just put another 8 in my workshop today to keep the other 4 company which were already in there from last week , plus i have another 3 in the heated out house adjoining the main house. Musical plant pots again... still a long way to safety :):)
     
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  17. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    That's what I wrote on the tag, but I may have made a mistake. It's from seeds that I got from the MS seed exchange and they germinated in 2018. Pictures from Sept. 2018 and August 2020 :

    sem_acer-morifolium_180906a.jpg sem_acer-morifolium_200818a.jpg

    On this page from a Japanese site about maples, the photos seem to correspond :

    Acer morifolium

    In the same site, Acer rubescens is under the name Acer Morrissonense. Here too, the photos look very similar to those I have :

    Acer Morrissonense

    One of the last sentences, at trhe bottom of the page :
    "Difficult to distinguish those 3 maples among Acer capillipes,
    Acer morifolium and Acer insulare only by leaves shape."

    BTW : the website is a very interesting reference I think, with lots of photos including comparisons between similarly-looking maple leaves :

    Maples & Japanese Culture by HAJIME HAYASHIDA

    Maples & Japanese Culture
     
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  18. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    All respect to Hayashida-san, who certainly knows what he's talking about. His pages are great though the names are sometimes outdated now. I do think morifolium is very difficult to pick out, though the bark seems a little different and the "pegs" seen on the underside of capillipes aren't present. It will be interesting to see what yours looks like in a couple of years. Of course there is a good chance it's a hybrid, as is the case with any of the snakebarks from a garden source.

    I have a grafted morifolium that I'm quite sure is a hybrid (or maybe simply is) capillipes. Then I have 2 wild collected morifolium that Piet de Jong confirmed, one is practically without lobes, really like mulberry leaves, and the other has very long leaves with small lobes. The bark is much more finely striped than the grafted one, though that may not mean anything.

    A. morrisonense is particularly confusing being both a synonym for A. rubescens and A. caudatifolium (or A. kawakamii). Still at least those two are easier to tell apart!

    Whatever, they're nice looking maples! :)

    Speaking of which the Larch (and co) arrived today, merci mille fois! All looks in good shape though I haven't had a chance to do anything yet. The little Malus is a delightful surprise too!
     
  19. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Very confusing, yes. And as you said it might be a hybrid. Anyway, I like it, or them, because I still have a couple of others.

    And in March... plant a larch! ;°)

    About the Malus, here's a photo of fruit from Malus sylvestris (from seeds collected in a forest), Malus coccinea and Malus 'Everest' :

    3-malus_201008a.jpg

    The fruit of Van Eseltine are the smallest I've seen so far, don't expect to make "calva" from it. One about the same size, that I gave to my son and that he planted in the garden of a house he used to rent flowered after three years in the ground, which is rather early for a young malus :

    malus-VanE_191104a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  20. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Heh, can you make Calva from crabapples? Those are small alright. We have 'Red Jade' where the apples are tiny, around that size and oblong; they are red, but too small to be noticeable. It does bloom well and has a nice habit.

    I planted 'Everest' in too tight with some other trees, now trying to figure out how to fix it. It was from the Point Vert and so badly topped, which I should have straightened out immediately but didn't.

    We're always wanting to plant more crab apples so Van Eseltine is a really welcome addition, thanks again. Also the fact that it's narrow helps find a place for it.

    What I need to procure for fruit this year is a good grafted medlar, to replace a Reine Claude that broke in the wind. Does anyone know a good cultivar? We need fruit that comes ready in winter!

    Adele has cherries thawing for pie tonight, because it will be time to pick again before you know it. Very spoiled for good food here in France! :)
     
  21. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Here is my first effort with potting up in an aquatic basket and an Akadama based mix as reccomended on the forum. 3 in total have been done today. (Only small grafts). This one is Ogi tsuma gaki.
    I am hoping for some good root growth this year with this process, so that I can plant out in 2022.
    IMG_20210306_155256588.jpg IMG_20210306_155303407.jpg
     
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  22. Shin-Deshojo

    Shin-Deshojo Rising Contributor

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    @Acerholic ,
    Very nice and well done.
    I am sure you will be rewarded in 1 or 2 seasons.
     
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  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Watch and wait as always. Thanks for the tip I.
     
  24. zfrittz

    zfrittz Rising Contributor

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    @Acerholic,
    Have you washed the root with water?
    I am telling you about it because I seem to see dark earth at the base of the maples.
    And the maples planted in akadama must be clean from any other soil.
     
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Hi J, it is a mixture with Akadama, not pure Akadama and I did wash the roots.
     
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