Wild roses vs. Mugho pine!

Discussion in 'HortForum' started by kia796, Feb 2, 2007.

  1. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    How can I get rid of these wild roses?
    I've tried scratching away the bark mulch and cutting everything I find that resembles their roots (probably rhizomes). The next year I get double what I thought I'd gotten rid of.
    Without hurting the mugho and the spruce behind it (which isn't in pic), is there a permanent solution?
     

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  2. Weekend Gardener

    Weekend Gardener Active Member 10 Years

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    During the active growing season, brush Roundup (or other preparations with glyphosate) on their leaves. You don't have to apply it to all the leaves, just a handful on each can. Make sure you do this on a still day and do not splash - you want to avoid getting any droplets on surrounding plants. Where the canes are in contact with other plants, the technique I use is to put a transparent plastic bag over the cane and brush Roundup on the leaves inside the plastic bag. Repeat the treatment on any new canes that spring up, as soon as you see leaves unfurl.

    An alternative, if you are not comfortable with using chemicals in your garden, is to cut every single cane back to below soil level. And do the same to any new shoots that appear as soon as you see them. Without green leaves to photosynthesise, in time, the plant will be starved of food reserves.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2007
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    If you pull each sucker out (with thick gloves!) as it appears, you should eventually exhaust the root system and kill it off.

    Spellcheck: mugo (not 'mugho')
     
  4. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    While I'm not a fan of chemicals, Roundup IS a staple here. I've always been reluctant to use it on wild roses whose green leaves were touching valuable specimens. Your method of plastic to protect the mugo (thanks for the spelling!) is a good one and I will try it for sure. Once Roundup has dried on rose leaves, it should be safe to remove the plastic?

    Pulling each sucker off as soon as it appears hasn't worked for me but I obviously didn't keep at it. Frequency (whether Roundup or gloved-hand pulling) then is the trick.

    It kills me to support Monsanto because of their heavy-handed tactics with Sask. farmers who refuse to get in line for "roundup-ready" Canola seeds.

    Wild Rose Country (Alberta)! I suppose they've learned to tolerate it.
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    You can also just hold a piece of cardboard or plywood between the target and the non-target while spraying. Or cut the bottom off a plastic bottle of the right size to make a funnel over the nozzle of the sprayer.

    Roses are quite vulnerable to glyphosate. You can also buy cheaper glyphosate that is not RoundUp, apparently Monsanto doesn't have a monopoly or they are licensing other companies.
     
  6. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    Good techniques, will try them ALL.
    I heard Monsanto's patent--which was for a finite period--ended.
    Hence the price drop (somewhat).
    Out of principle alone I'll try the competition.

    But that wild rose will be a goner!
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Various non-RoundUp glyphosate products - KleenUp, for instance - were available in garden centers starting many years ago, have never looked into or heard what that signified.
     
  8. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    But Glyphosphate really does work if you're able to wait until success shows, usually about a week. There are new formulations with, I believe, simazine (sp?) added, which shows knockdown is working earlier.

    Some other products we tried were only so-so.
     
  9. Buckthorne

    Buckthorne Member

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    I've found that I have a better kill if I cut a plant to the grown and get the new growth once it's a foot tall. The extra energy used for the new growth weekens the root system and makes the herbicide a little more effective. This also applies to spraying during flowering.
     
  10. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    I have found Buckthorne's method very satisfactory. Even if you have to cut a few times, it does get the job done. I would also say that I find it quicker and easier than mixing up spray, protecting plants, spraying, and then cleaning up. The big plus, of course, is not using chemicals and not running the risk of damaging something you hadn't intended to. Long handled loppers work well---quick and easy. Now if only poison ivy was as easy to deal with.
     
  11. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    extra energy used for the new growth weakens the root system
    so that's why some of my treatments worked better than others! That IS interesting, as I had thought variable effectiveness might have been caused by too low a temperature at time of application.

    I had used long handled loppers a few times (because I was afraid to harm with mugo with overspray). But what used to be one or two wild rose stems is now 15stems. I think spraying with glypho must be the only way with wild roses; otherwise there'll be 300 stems in a few years.

    Thanks folks.
     
  12. Buckthorne

    Buckthorne Member

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    Well, temperature is important too. As you probably already know, The systemic enters through holes in the leaf called, stoma. Stoma are often open when there's plenty of soil moisture and it's not too hot out. They'll tend to close up when it's hot or conditions are droughty in order to conserve on moisture. Best to spray when they're wide open.
     
  13. hortfreak

    hortfreak Active Member Maple Society

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    Cutting off the canes, allowing them to grow back a bit, then cutting them down to the ground again will kill the plant, probably after a few times if one is persistent. Not only is the plant weakened by the heavy expenditure of energy used to regrow, it will not be able to produce chlorophyll if it has no leaves (cut back to the ground), therefore it will not be able to produce food, thus weakening it further.
     
  14. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Customarily with glyphosate you want enough top present for enough herbicide to be absorbed to damage (repeat applications may be necessary with large perennial roots, like a rose will often have) or hopefully kill the roots. Directions often say to wait until top is fully developed, even flowering (varies with kind of plant) before spraying. Best results with blackberries said to be gotten from fall applications, the idea being the herbicide will actually be translocated with nutrients in foliage down to overwintering buds in crowns and kill these, thus preventing regrowth the following spring.

    Blackberries and roses are in the same family.
     
  15. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    A fall application...had never considered that. Interesting about it then going down to the roots where it's stored. This rose (we've "affectionately" called it Steroid Rose because no matter what we've done with loppers and digging/cutting beneath the soil, it comes back with many times the canes we had before.

    Glypho plan then, for this spring as new leaves become abundant and the weather warms, followed a couple of weeks later by cutting down any canes that look like they're going to send new leaves. If they do leaf out again, re-spray, perhaps each week or two. And a hopefully final application in fall.

    I can believe they're in the same family as blackberries, now that you mention it, if only for the stubborness of their canes.

    You folks give me encouragement that I can beat this thing. Thank you all for valuable advice.
     
  16. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    I wouldn't waste time spraying little sprouts from cut-back canes, for reasons mentioned. Try readling booklet that comes with it/labeling on container, plus any directions given online for additional information.
     
  17. TonyR

    TonyR Active Member

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    For some of these more persistent subjects especially those that grow as canes or suckers I have found the "scrape" method of applying glyphosate more effective. You pull on the cane with one hand and draw a knife blade at right angles along it with the other, making a wound at least a foot long. Then immediately dribble the glyphosate along the whole length of the wound. It's important to use full strength glyphosate, not the greatly diluted stuff they sell for lawn weeds etc. Maybe you can dilute it a bit, no more than 1 to 4. A few excess drips falling on the soil should not matter, as it binds to the clay colloids and does not affect plant roots. Follow-ups are still likely to be needed.
     
  18. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    Thanks for yet another great idea! I'm grateful. This is the Wild Rose's last year at my place.
     
  19. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Will be helpful advice for me dealing with my flowering quince too, Tony, thanks. The thing has thick roots heading for China - via under my neighbour's driveway. You're not alone, Kia.
     
  20. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    Flowering quince get that way, too??? oh no, I've got 4 young ones. The Sterile Insect Release people come every year to band them (and remind me to pick up the fruits and dispose of them in a plastic bag into the garbage).

    My quince haven't suckered...yet.
     
  21. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    What for??
     
  22. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    On-going government program to control spread of Codling Moth by making people aware of alternate hosts. We're in a commercial apple growing area. Years ago we had 1,200 mac and spartan trees (now firewood), in addition to a 600-tree D.fir Christmas cut-your-own Christmas tree farm.

    Details are found here: http://www.oksir.org/

    The banding program is part of the awareness for landowners to know which are alternate codling moth hosts. On my acreage, they've banded one pear tree, four flowering quince, and a decorative flowering plum with purple leaves (whose name I've forgotten). Concurrently, sterile (males?) are released in an effort to decrease the population.

    But it all comes down to the individual shopper at the store. If the consumer is averse to buying an apple with a blemish or two on it (fearing a worm), wholesalers won't buy it either.


    While I agree with the thrust of the program (eventually eliminate pesticides, the worst of which is Guthion), all it takes is one seedling apple tree hidden somewhere on, say, a remote fenceline, and it wouldn't work.
     
  23. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Thanks!

    The other option is make them into quince jam . . .
     
  24. KarinL

    KarinL Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Well, yes, flowering quince does do the same thing. I don't know if all the cultivars do it, but certainly if you have a big one that you cut back, the suckering will begin. Personally, I wouldn't plant one in the ground. Note that this is flowering quince I'm talking about (Chaenomeles) and not the true quince, Cydonia, which is a tree. Some of us have previously discussed (exhaustively) this in the Fruit forum...

    http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=9337
     
  25. kia796

    kia796 Active Member

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    Oops, forgot: they've also banded a remaining spartan (the crunchiest, yummiest and best-storing apple).

    I've heard of quince jam from British visitors...too tart for my palate. Cheers.
     

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