Which pinyon

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by Winterfell, May 30, 2016.

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  1. Winterfell

    Winterfell Member

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    I've had this one for a long time 10 years maybe? I've always thought it to be p..johannis, but I think I read p. Johannis isn't monoecious. This one as you can see makes male and female cones. Does that make it p. Bicolor?
     

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  2. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Both P. johannis and P. discolor are subdioecious - meaning that an individual plant will produce both sex cones, but an imbalance in the number of cones of each sex. So one plant might produce 100 seed cones and 10 pollen cones, another plant 10 seed cones and 100 pollen cones.

    Distinguishing between the two is very tricky; P. johannis has on average larger mature cones than P. discolor, but with some overlap. They are / were often considered a single species, but recent genetic evidence (Flores-Rentería et al., 2013. Genetic, morphological, geographical and ecological approaches reveal phylogenetic relationships in complex groups, an example of recently diverged pinyon pine species (Subsection Cembroides). Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 69: 940–949) has shown they are distinct from each other. Do you know the source of the plant? If AZ/NM/northwest Mexico, then P. discolor; if northeast Mexico, then P. johannis.
     
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  3. Winterfell

    Winterfell Member

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    The plant should be johannis. I bought it from forestfarm as a one gallon plant about 10 years ago. It was supposed to be p. Pinceana. I doubted it was the correct item and i Talked to ray at forestfarm and he said he was sure it was 7 years old and seed grown at his nursery from seed collected from Sierra Madre oriental. At the time on the other garden forum you're actually the one who suspected johannis. Thanks again Michael. It has some maturing cones on it as well from last year so I'm interested to see how large they grow and if it self ed and made any viable seeds (I realize that's a little unlikely) none of my other pinyons coned last year so there was no compatible pollen around
     
  4. Winterfell

    Winterfell Member

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    Here are some more shots of the cones, not that I think they are helpful, just because they are interesting
     

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  5. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    As Pinus pinceana is a Sierra Madre Oriental endemic, if the seed's from there, then yes P. johannis.

    The cone in the 2nd pic has 2 or 3 scales expanding, so there will be seeds in those, but can't tell whether they'll be filled seeds or empty until the cone opens. The cone in the 3rd pic I suspect will abort and drop off, as none of the scales looks to be expanding.
     
  6. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Happened on this thread again just now - how did the cones develop in the end?
     

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