I ordered a 3G plant last year....and while the overall 2 leaders appear fairly grown, the rootball I received-----it was like a 1G. I snapped a pic of me putting the received plant into a 3G Container Fast forward this year. Noticed it was a bit tipped from its planting hole -top heavy....not enough rootball holding it in. I put 2 rocks on it for now and staked it in to help it. Since I lifted it to see - not much root growth from last year. Just for good measure, I inoculated the roots with some more MYCO just to help if it could. Didn't get a chance to snap a pic of it yesterday but here is a pic of the received *3G* and how I put it into a 1G container Presuming all the understock is Acer Palmatum , and granted depending on the specific siting/soil/water, etc is different in each planting hole, what drives (root growth). Is it symbiotic relationship between how much foliage it is, how long leaders/leaders, branching, etc and the unison of that below on energy, how much the leaf transpires that pushes root growth ?
Good afternoon @mobiledynamics First of all there are some sellers out there that put small maples into 3g pots to make you think you are getting a bigger, older and therefore stronger tree. If this happens to me and it has in the past, I will not buy from that seller again. A buyer beware scenario... Re root growth, IMO it's all about giving the maple the correct growing conditions, ie free draining, and slightly on the acidic side of neutral. There are do called magic potions out there and yes I have tried them, with no success. Now the hydroponics members have great success with their methods and here is a link to that on the forum. It's very interesting to read. @zfrittz has a lot of knowledge on this but sadly hasn't been on the forum for some time. https://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/threads/propagation.98442/page-4#post-389162 Next there is the spagnum moss method for root growth, used primarily for air layering. This is a proven successful way to grow good roots. What you have done in placing the maple back in a smaller pot will do it a lot of good. Maples like to be snug in their pot, there are too many people wanting to up the size far too quickly. Each re pot upwards should only be in the very next size. I see you have used MYCO. This is supposed to encourage root growth, but in my experience it has not proven to be the case. Nothing wrong in trying it though. So my take in getting good root growth, is to give your maple the ideal growing medium and correct position, ie morning dun and afternoon shade. Try to replicate the conditions the Maples grow well in, in Japan for instance... Not sure if this is of any help, but that's what I do.
I'll expand on Myco. I did mention it that other thread reply of upotting but hopefully for those not seeing any results from it, I'll share my POV I did apply Myco in this application just more for best effort, but IMO, soil/dirt has plenty on it in it. It really didn't need MYCO for this particular siting I use Myco primarily in yearly summer veg. seedlings-plantings. It does work IMO, especially when starting them in a soil-less medium. I spritz the roots wet with a spray bottle and apply Myco , which the wet roots help it adhere much more easily as you dust the roots. The Myco does need to be in direct contact with the roots. Many may put in the soil bottom or mix it within the planting fill, but Myco needs to be in direct contact with the roots or else it dies off once wet AFAIK. Second , like all things in life, you want to make sure you are using *fresh* Myco. I order from a place where they generally bag new Myco as they ful-fill the order. There is a finite life on them and also depending on storage conditions if purchased from a retailers - store, etc --- how old is the product, warehouse storage conditions, etc. As a general rule, I only buy enough from time of - batch order production- so it's usable within 30-36 months. As far was watering, with MYCO - I don't have a rain barrel or that sort but I will fill a few jugs of water a few days in advance to let whatever chemicals the city puts into our water to dissipate. Whether it be chlorine, etc - I'm not sure if it will harm the Myco - so better safe than sorry when it comes to the 10 days and what water the inoculate roots - Myco - it gets. YMMV but these are my cliff notes re: Myco
Nursery maples are often grown with high levels of fertigation (to make them grow quickly) which can sometimes lead to an imbalance between root size and top size. Probably what happened to your tree. Yes there is a relationship which could be described as symbiotic between the top part and the roots as you have described. A stronger growing cultivar will boost root growth compared to a weaker growing cultivar on the same understock. Equally some understocks are just weaker and relatively slower growing than others. Take the example of apple trees where the cultivars are grafted onto different strains of understock depending on what size tree is required.
I forgot about the overfertz to max productivity....like the OP, it had 2 thicker leaders, as would have expected of a 3G. Just a puntzy rootball that doesn't appear to have started -good establishment- with a whole season of spring, summer, fall and now hopefully a new -spring root max cycle- growth. I did remove the stake earlier on this year and this is probably the reason why I saw it at a lean with the rootball a smidge out ......it simply has not taken in yet. Well, stake put back and I'll leave the rocks on there until I feel the sun is going to heat soak the rocks....which probably is right around the corner weather wise.
Shake or wash the potting soil off, prune and spread the roots as necessary and replant - the core issue will be root deformity due to the rootstock and/or the grafted combination being kept in a small pot for too long at some point (or points). As for the question "What promotes root growth" in the thread title this is regulated by hormones produced by winter stem buds. With spring bud break being when new roots are produced. And the setting of these buds in autumn being when existing roots elongate. With 60% of the annual total increase in length happening at this time. In addition, a key point is that autumn in this context is whenever a given specimen discontinues shoot growth for the year, sets buds - I have pulled balled in burlap vine maples with firmed up, budded tops and autumn coloring starting to show out of a sawdust bed in July to find current season roots sticking out of the burlap for some distance.
Perhaps the plant was not ready to be repotted into a larger pot. We found over the years that really letting the younger trees stay in their existing pot until the root system really pulled out like a firm plug was the best approach. When the roots appear to be "wrapping" around the pot it was always a sign that the plant was placed into a pot too big for the tree. Excess fertilizing and water allowed the roots to not have to push out as they normally would ( or should in a container application). Acers don't need that fast push to increase the rate of growth in the root system (personal opinion), The trees are naturally slow growers in the container or the garden applications. As mentioned above, many nurseries place a young tree into a larger pot just to try for a higher price point when it should be remaining in the correct size for the size of the root system.
Roots are geotropic - they always grow away from the center of the plant unless and until encountering an obstruction. Circling of roots in containers is caused by them being deflected by pot walls. The time to repot is when roots are approaching the walls. And not after they have been circling. Plants growing in the ground their entire lives have the whole world to root out into. With root systems significantly broader in extent than the branch canopy being the normal condition for trees - there is no such thing as overpotting.
true, but many growers repot a container grown maple into a pot that is much larger then required, giving the roots plenty of time to circle the pot before being aware of it. In general, our approach was to go from a one gallon to a two gallon. The tree could then stay in that pot for a couple more years. There seems to be a thought pattern that placing a japanese maple into a larger pot ( then required) will result in a larger tree at a quicker rate.
I'm not a heavy container gardener but I've never understood the whole pot 1 size up. I can see where concern about root rot is a concern in this aspect, but it's not an exact science...as every location/siting may dictate a slightly faster or a slightly retentive draining mix. But regardless, as long as the mix drains well -well, I don't see a difference sticking 1/2G in a 3G container, versus just 1G going directly into a 5/7G. To me, I would think the container mix dictates things. For those advocating a 1 pot size up, has anyone even done the scientific test. Take 2 plants. Same understock, same cultivar....maybe even same supplier, as grafts IME is all over the map Of similar root size balls. On upsized in the next pot size and another in a *larger pot* than the recommend 1 size up. Place both in the same siting, same watering schedule, same feed schedule, etc and is there a difference between keeping it in the smaller 1 pot upsize vs something that might be 3G-7G more in pot volume ? There is not alot of JM locally of the cultivars I want so most of my stuff is mailorder. I have one grower who has both pot grown and field grown. The field grown can't be overly too large in branching, but overall branching/leader thickness, etc - that will be reasonable to ship from one side of the states to the opposite coast. If the cultivar is available in field grown, I generally err for that on a order as IME, the plant just seems a bit bigger, robust - presuming it just access to all the *life* that exists in dirt that doesn't really happen in a pot grown option. Not to say pot growns aren't bad, just saying that the field grown stuff I have received (price reflective as well) is just a wee bit nicer.
By now millions of plants have been grown going directly from a liner to a 3 gallon and so on with every crop cycle.
Hi Ron - I presume your reply from a trades standpoint. From the big guys like Iseli, Bizon, Bucholz who mainly sell to nurseries I get my JM's 2 ways. Local nurseries *here* carry only the popular stuff and a very very small selection outside of the Tamukeyama and Crimson Queens of the masses. I've seen the availability list of cultivars in 3/5/7 G size of the listings available out west.......which is nil to none out here.
For sure, many growers and gardeners re pot into very large pots, much larger then required. They likely likely have very strong backs too! The biggest reason nurseries up pot from a one gallon to a three gallon is because they always get more $$ from the unsuspecting purchaser (imo) 30 years ago those same age trees were sold in 2 gallon pots. For many years we only sold container grown specimens and the only field stock we grew were all the mother trees ( for grafting) on our property which of course we still have ( 34 varieties) Container grown maples take much longer to grow then a field grown tree and also develop different growth characteristics. We still have many container grown trees thru out our gardens as well and personally they are among our favorites when it comes to size / shape / character / etc. In the end the beauty of a tree is always in the eye of the beholder. A nice example of an old container grown tree on our property is a "Pixie" dwarf upright. Around 50 years old now and still looking fairly respectable
I don't think there is anything wrong with container received plant stock. But I think the POV is just based one's experience and also what is available within reason..... With my local nursery yard container stock, they only carry popular -less than a handful of cultivars...the reds mentioned. On certain stuff like 5G or the specimens sized, specimens sizes are just grown nicer - single leader or better framework. The 5G at the same yard - same wholesale nursery source based on tags - ever leader was topped at various height - with wyes and such. 18 inches 0r so .I'd rather have a single leader and let me decide if/when it get's topped. On mail order container, I get from one grower, who only sells 1G or 2G being the largest- they take OCD care and pride in every plant. The nebari on every single plant I have received, you can tell someone has paid attention to these details. And every plant for the most part is a single leader. Other mail orders.....YMMV. I wish I could get every cultivar I wanted locally just so I can see frameworks. I once got a plant.....it was not listed as a high graft but it was so high-up, aka, lollipop - I couldn't stand it and managed to sell it locally the same month. Here we are on a forum yaaaaakking about growing JM. We're probably like .00001 representative of the growers out there ;-)
@mobiledynamics Have you considered sourcing our European independent growers for mail order to get potential varieties you may like? Also, winter is the best time as they ship bare root wrapped in moist paper, then wrapped in poly. They can be in transit for 3 weeks without issues if you order in January. We did that a couple of times back in the 90's to get a few varieties that we could not find in North America. Dick Van Der Maat comes to mind in Holland. Excellent quality trees, beautiful nursery on approx 2 acres of land back then when I visited him. He shipped trees to us twice in winter, no problem arriving into Canada at all. There was a little paper work to do back then, but likely has increased a fair bit more now.
On the Euro sources , is it the same principles like other plant things - where it needs to be approved by the Dept. of Agriculture so that other pests, etc are not introduced for Canada ? On Post #13, sounds like you at one point was a grower as well. It's been a loooong time since the overseas source of a plant material was mentioned but eon's ago, when I -briefly- looked into this (not in the realm of JM), bringing in insects and diseases was the biggest no-no of them all. A link akin to the reply in this thread : https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/...ed-out-a-century-ago-could-it-make-a-comeback
