Hello all, I have come upon a green strapleaf JM tagged as (are you ready for this?): Ao shime no uchi shidare This seems to be two or three different cultivar names shuffled together, but I am not sure. I can find descriptions of JM's listed with part (or parts!) of this cultuvar name, but never the same description twice! If it is a green strapleaf, of the myriad of names listed above, what could this JM be? THANK YOU for your help! I am very confused.
Really? Thank you! May I ask, in which edition of Vertrees are you looking? My book does not have it. :(
Thank you both for the source. Are either of you growing this cultivar? Might you have any photos or information to share? I don't have the Vertrees edition cited, but I would love to know all I can about this tree. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
Also listed in "Maples of the World", not growing the tree. Using Vertrees 2nd edition. Don't have 3rd, which is in the local library.
This is also listed in Vertrees 3rd. Esveld's web site lists Aome shime no uchi which I guess to be synonymous as it's in the same group. (Vertrees mentions that Ao shime no uchi shidare is known in Japan as Ao meshime no uchi, and of course where we as westerners insert a space may have little to do with the original Japanese). Van Gelderen also mentions that Ao shichigosan is probably synonymous. Although the Japanese names may seem strange to those of us who don't speak the language, they often have fascinating meanings. Looking in the back of Vertrees 3rd I come up with Ao shime no uchi shidare = Little cascading blue-green New Year's decoration! Perhaps time to study Japanese... -E
I just get so frustrated by my own attempts at research. Same, or similar name, or direction to a differently named cutivar altogether, and conflicting images all the while: From rhodo.citymax.com: The very slender bright green lobes of this beautiful little spreading threadleaf turn yellow, orange, and gold in fall. The texture is very fine, making it a wonderful choice for container growing. From WorldPlants.com: A finely-textured cultivar to about 5-8', excellent for container growing or as a specimen. Leaves tend to hang down, giving a cascading look. Red, yellow, and gold in the fall. This is a sun-tolerant plant. Name might be something to do with a green dagger? From Maillot-erable.com: Ao meshime no uchi – Leaves: tender greenish yellow in spring, turning to dark green in summer and fiery red in autumn. Greater than 4 meters. AND, showing different leaf shapes and colors - Ao meshime no uchi shidare - Leaves: tender green and then yellow in autumn. Greater than 4 meters. From Esveld.nl: 'Aome shime no uchi' AND, showing different leaf shape - 'Ao meshime no uchi shidare' - Description: upright species with linear green leaves. Color: green. Size: 2.5 meters. Hardiness: hardy. From MiyamaAsiamMaples.com: AO SHIME NO UCHI (Syn: Shime No Uchi) - A linearilobum; the green version of AKA SHIME NO UCHI with a bright green strap like leaf. An upright shrub type of growth. Good for a bonsai specimen or container tree. Height: 6' Fall Color: Yellow From StanleyandSons.com: Acer palm `Ao shime no uchi' - This plant is really 'Shinobuga oka'. Plant has narrow linearilobum type green leaves that turn to orange-yellow. Plant is a shrubby tree making an 18 ft. tree at maturity. Hard to find a plant over 10 ft. From e-Bay seller I am buying from - Cal Maples: A very nice green linearilobum dwarf tree. Leaves emerge a bright green and change to a yellow, sometimes golden, color for fall. From MountainMaples.com: The very slender bright green lobes of this beautiful little spreading threadleaf turn yellow, orange, and gold in fall. The texture is very fine, making it a wonderful choice for container growing. So which is it really? I just get to pick the one I like, or what!? :)
Spookiejenkings has made a good analysis of available info. What does not seem to be clear is the difference between Ao meshime no uchi and Ao meshime no uchi shidare. In addition in Maples for Gardens things get a little mixed up saying that both of them are very close to Shinobu ga oka which is a Linearilobum. I have both Ao meshime no uchi and Shinobu ga oka since last year and, from memory, they look different. I have realized I have not taken any pics of Shinobu ga oka (I'll try to remedy that next weekend) but I can share two pics of Ao meshime no uchi taken this Spring that I have in the computer. You can easily see it is not a linearilobum like plant, leaves are like those in Maillot's website. Both plants come from D. van der Maat Gomero
Ao= green, shime = a New Year decoration, no = of, uchi= within, shidare = cascading or willowy. Shin= new. Maybe someone familiar with the Japanese language will explain the other words in the respective tree names.
Thank y'all. I am glad you are there to understand my frustration! :) Gomero, you nailed it: what is the difference, or is there one, between 'Ao shime no uchi shidare' and 'Ao shime no uchi'? Also, it seems that US based nurseries refer to an 'Ao shime no uchi shidare' and European websites write of the same tree as 'Ao meshime no uchi shidare'. The majority of the time, the tree referenced in the US has green straplike leaves, grows to no more than 10 feet, and is yellow, sometimes golden in fall. The photos I see on websites from other countries look like Gomeros tree and note an orange or even red fall color, and mature heights of more than 4 meters. Visit any of the websites I mentioned above to see what I mean. So, if I have the smaller, strap-like leaved cultivar sold to me in th US as 'Ao shime no uchi shidare', which tree do I really have?
The US and European cultivars seem to be completely different trees and named as such, you should receive the tree true to the name 'Ao shime no uchi shidare'. More pendulous {shidare} than 'Ao shime no uchi' or 'Shino buga oka', which are apparently synonyms of another linearlobum type and sometimes referred to as 'Ao no hichi gosan' or 'Ao hichi gosan', from what I understand. Assuming you may have the new Vertrees pocket edition, when you mention "my book'', and it may be more concise than earlier editions, which are worth having it seems. Didn't find mention of 'Ao meshime no uchi shidare' in 2nd edition Vertrees or "Maples of the World". Your US or European supplier may know more, or be able to explain the differences or similarities, growing conditions, mature size, etc. Appreciate the confusion, think it happens to all one time or another, and is a part of collecting these trees. Hopefully the trees you receive have correct labels.
Yes. They seem to be completely different. That was what I was attempting to illustrate, my friend - in light of the fact that growers/retailers of these trees refer to them as the same, or under a different name entirely. Now that is settled, how do I go about researching the PARTICULAR plant I happen to have? How do I know where or when 'Ao shime no uchi shidare' originated, or what cultivar(s)it is the parent of or related to? How do I know for sure what siting it prefers, or how big it is likely to be ultimately?
Botanical gardens containing acer collections and maple books can be excellent information sources. Maybe join the Maple Society, whose members may be more knowledgable concerning this cultivar and others. Not aware of any synonyms for the topic cultivar.
