viridis or waterfall?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by mylesahead, May 14, 2008.

  1. mylesahead

    mylesahead Active Member

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    Location:
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    we recently bought a 20 gallon acer palmatum viridis,brought it home and planted it only to discover a tag on the plant said waterfall. are they the same? do they have the same color change in the fall. we bought a viridis because my wife is from japan and there the viridis change to a golden red in fall. we hope that the waterfall is the same. its doing nicly here. all leafed out. can you help?
     
  2. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    My own Waterfall shows autumn colours of yellow/gold, although it is in fairly deep shade
    Vertrees describes the autumn colour as brilliant golden tones suffused with crimson
    I have no doubt that your tree will give many years of joy .....
     
  3. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    I have not been able to tell the difference. For what its worth my waterfall is my current favorite of my young garden (and my tree is well less than 20 gallons). Enjoy the tree!
     

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  4. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Hi, mylesahead:

    I have both cultivars, two 'Viridis' and two 'Waterfall'. Both are green dissectums. The name Viridis is used actually as a "generic' or general term for green dissectums. Waterfall is one of them, but it has the 'plus' that its branches are more rounded (if not pruned) doing the effect of a waterfall. IMHO you got a plus with the waterfall because its very distinctive shape. Don't be affraid of the fall color: It is simply astounding with a mix of yellows, fiery oranges and reds. As paxy says, my Waterfalls are by far ones of my favorites. Your wife won't be dissapointed, believe me.

    Here are some pics examples of what a A.P. 'Waterfall' "can do" (pics 1 and 2 fall colors, pic 3 spring color):
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2008
  5. dawgie

    dawgie Active Member 10 Years

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    According to Vertrees, Viridis has become sort of a generic term for green dissectums. Waterfall, in my opinion, is one of the best green dissectum varieties. So consider yourself fortunate.
     
  6. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    Nelran, those are three great specimens - where did you get those pics?
     
  7. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Well, paxi, hard to tell, I have a lot of pictures that I began to collect from internet and other sources, just to compare and study the diferent cultivar and their changes in different seasons. At the beginning of these colection I got a lot of pics without care about the source, so for most of them I don't have the source. I just have pics classified by cultivars. Most were downloaded and others were shared by other collectors. I think if you go to google images and type the name of a cultivar you'll find what you looking for.

    nelran
     
  8. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Maybe a link to the copyrighted material would work ? More info if "copyright" is "searched" at top title bar.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2008
  9. swanny

    swanny Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    I have both a 'Viridis' and a 'Waterfall', planted in close proxmity to each other in a shady area under mature oak trees. I feel that the 'Viridis' has a deeper gold color and tinges of red that the 'Waterfall' is lacking, the green coloration is very similiar. Three pictures attached illustrate the color differences.

    Swanny
     

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  10. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Very nice fall colors, Swanny. I don't have pics of my dissectums with fall color, so I'm posting my own cultivars with spring color. All specimens received same amount of sun last year. Now I have moved my big Waterfall to afternoon shade, so probably I won't get same deep orange/red colors next fall. (However I like the yellow tones too). The first 4 pics are from the waterfalls, last two are for my Viridis. I noted that Viridis is very slow growing and dwarf, but anyway, I discovered that each JM cultivar has its "15 minutes of glory" each year, and that's the main difficult for me when somebody ask me to chose favorites (It seems that each one take its "turn on the walkway" to exhibit its best dress each year).
     

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  11. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Location:
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    Here are some pics examples of what a A.P.
    'Waterfall' "can do".


    Just because another entity snagged photos
    online of plants does not mean that we have
    a free license to also snag those photos and
    use them for anything we want other than for
    personal, private usage.

    Herein is the problem with doing that. Of the
    three photos that were submitted and in this
    particular case I think this incident can lead
    to this being educational for others is that:
    1). one of the photos probably is Waterfall.
    2). one of the photos may or may not be a
    Waterfall. First thought I had is that it is
    not a Waterfall.
    3). one of the photos is clearly not a Waterfall.

    Okay, what does anyone do about it? Do we
    continue on calling all three plants as depicted
    in the photos Waterfall or do we try to get a
    consensus of what a Waterfall indeed looks
    like? I know my opinions mean little but
    this kind of thing will only get worse in time,
    not better.

    There are other green leafed dissectums that
    encompass the Viridis group of Maples and
    by the way it was an Italian nursery in more
    recent years that spent a lot of time sorting
    out of those plants gathered from a host of
    Maple growing locations. Two old Maples
    of Japan - Ao shidare and Ao washi no o have
    been intermittently mixed in with Viridis
    and Waterfall for a number of years from
    West Coast growers. We had a mix of Ao
    washi no o in our block of five gallon Viridis
    until we decided to pull the Ao washi no o
    out of that block of 300 five gallons. We
    ended up with five Ao washi no o. I'll
    let a Kobayashi son sometime, if he will
    do it in this forum, tell of how his father
    (Jiro) searched around and allover Japan
    trying to find that Maple when it was
    thought by numerous people to be extinct
    in Japan and elsewhere for several years.
    The reason I had that Maple for 24 years
    and the basis why there is still one in the
    collection is not due to the person that
    grafted it, it was due to the person that
    found some plants of it and sent them
    to one certain grower in the US.

    Jim
     
  12. Daniel Mosquin

    Daniel Mosquin Paragon of Plants UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Please remove the photographs from these forums if they weren't taken by you or if you don't have explicit permission to use them.
     
  13. nelran

    nelran Active Member

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    Done, Daniel.
     
  14. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    Waterfall was one of my first and I have grown it since 1995. I got my first virdis in 2002 and loved it so much I got another in 05. The difference I see on mine (and of course as with all cultivars of anything you buy, most of us can only go by the label) is that Waterfall is a more rounded growth habit. Mine is like a green Garnet. Both of the virdis, to me, are more sculptural. They have grown more upright and the branches reach, and twist. I love both for different reasons.

    As for color, my waterfall one year was a glowing orange and simple beautiful. Of course, growing in zone 5, I don't get the colors you do in the more southern reaches because by the time they start to turn, we can get hard freezes so the window of color on Japanese maples can be short. Usually, they are both yellow.

    I don't know, as a gardener, there is such difficulty in determining whether or not things are labeled correctly. That's one of the great frustrations of gardening. On the plus side, they are both vigorous, great additions to a garden.
    Kay
     
  15. mylesahead

    mylesahead Active Member

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    Location:
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    thank you the waterfall is doing very well we will post a picture soon.
     

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