VERY OLD (seed samples) From Carl Von Linne's Botanical Garden any value?

Discussion in 'Plants: Science and Cultivation' started by tgeer2, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    If this were my collection, my highest priority would be to keep it intact. Thanks for the update, tgeer. Exciting news! Looking forward to the next installment!
     
  2. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    philly, pa, usa 6b
    i agree, keeping all the items intact/together is of utmost importance!!
     
  3. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hello Everyone!

    I have sent a list of names that were written on the outside of the vials (78) to Lena Hansson Linnaeus's garden, Uppsala University and she has helped me identify the name of the seeds that were in these vials. Check out the attachment and you will see a list of the names and some of the correspondences between Lena and myself. We are still trying to unwrap the mystery. I will keep you posted! Thanks
    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Silver surfer

    Silver surfer Generous Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,912
    Likes Received:
    266
    Location:
    PERTHSHIRE. SCOTLAND.UK
    Thank you Tom for keeping us all updated. It is fascinating. Good luck with your detective work!
     
  5. Poetry to Burn

    Poetry to Burn Active Member

    Messages:
    829
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    Yes, thanks Tom. The thread and updates sketch out an interesting horticultural anecdote.
     
  6. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Better than an old-time radio serial! Thrilling stuff. I am excited to be a witness to the dehiscence of this botanical mystery! Thanks for the update, tgeer---if you can, post pictures of the scrapbooks!
     
  7. C.Wick

    C.Wick Active Member

    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atchison
    What an outstanding collection!!!
    I recently read a book...something in it made me wonder about propogating old seeds like these?
    A point was made that said...should there be a 'timer' in genetics...do seeds that have been sitting for a long time have the same EVERYTHING that their future ancestors have? In the book it was talking about how plants such as bamboo can time 'out' when they turn 300 years or so and then the whole population goes....nothing that was seeded durring that 300 survives........even if it was only 10 years old at the time of the massive extinction? (i know...not making much sense here but trying...)
    Very curious of all the varieties of seeds u have here....wonderful share!!!
     
  8. Linnaea borealis

    Linnaea borealis Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Hello everyone,

    I just wanted to show you some of the seed-vials from The Botanical Garden, Hortus (Botanicus) Upsaliensis. The seeds from Uppsala that have been discussed above in this thread, still are quite interesting.
    Why did they end up where they did, in what context was they brought to USA? Was it just a sample-collection or was they meant to be grown? What did the society look like back in 1920? Was there a lot of farming around? Were they meant for research or ... I look forward to see what will turn up - if there are name of persons that can be bound to the seeds one can probably go further and see if there is some connection to the Agricultural University or Uppsala University.

    Best regards from
    Lena, Linnaeus's Garden and Uppsala
     

    Attached Files:

  9. K Baron

    K Baron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    North Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    Are the vials containing the specimen seeds, sealed in wax? If scientists can germinate 1000 year old seeds from ancient findings in the perma frost/ maybe their could be a genesis in your midst?

    I can't wait to hear of your findings!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
  10. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hi Lena,

    After carefully looking through the scrapbooks and the box of stuff that came with the "seeds" I can't come to any conclusion on how and who brought them back. Most of the scrapbooks pertained to trips locally here in the States but very very interesting. Howard Hall was the name that were in these scrapbooks and it kept going back to the Boston, Mass area. I did find some very old flower prints from the Curtis Botanical Magazine. The date on these are 1796, 1803, 1804, and 1808. I also found 6 more that have plate numbers with the name of the flower and MVW on the bottom of the prints. Another interesting thing I found was a Heliotype print of a Rembrandt engraving. Other than that I can't find anything else that pertains to these seeds! Now I am kinda of at a road block on what to do or where to go. I did try to contact two different Universities a couple of days ago but have not heard back from them as of yet. Any idea what I should do now?
    I will post this on the UBC Botanical Web Site to see if anybody else can help!
    Thanks
    Tom
     
  11. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    ANTIQUES ROAD SHOW!!!! I am serious! "History Detectives" as well. (Both on PBS.) What you have here is a multi-branched historical mystery, comprising various fields of investigation. The folks who do these shows are in the mystery-unraveling business, and have resources at their disposal not available to mere citizens such as ourselves. (---Well, not as easily available.)
    I certainly do think that it would be worth your time to fire off an email to both of these shows---I'm sure that an address, a person, could be found on the PBS website---phone call, old-fashioned mail---I'd do ALL of them!!!

    I reiterate my previous idea: contact the local news media and get them on the scent! Tally-ho and view-halloa!
     
  12. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hi togata57,

    We have sent e-mails to both "Antique Road Show & History Detectives" , but with the many e-mails they get I think ours got lost. I totally agree with you that what they do with the investigation and having the resources to do the investigations are far more advanced than mine! I will take your advice and try calling them and maybe also start with local media. Thanks for your input!
    Tom
     
  13. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    If you could find just ONE person...and that person has gotta be out there. Yes, the phone call might produce more fruitful results...be patient and persistent (am sure that you will have to wade through secretarial staff first) till you are given a specific name and number to call. ---Have you a local historical society? Arboretum? How about antique shops? Do the scrapbooks give any clues as to this Howard Hall's interests?---I'm thinking...say he got back from Sweden with this cool stuff. Wouldn't it be a natural impulse to want to show it to other people? Back in the olden days groups would gather in auditoriums, schools, churches to have an evening's entertainment viewing pictures of some lucky fellow-citizen's trip to exotic Europe, or Scandinavia. Search the newspaper archives for any mention of Howard Hall in the possible years. (In these modern times, this could probably be done on-line.) ---An antique dealer would probably just LOVE to run an eye over that Heliotype print. AND: your friendly local librarian could search the Curtis Botanical Magazine for you. ---Worth a shot to try from the Boston, Mass. end of things too. ---Perhaps, a private detective! No joke! ---Does the U. of Uppsala have any record of him? ---Ship's manifests---passport records?---Yes, I know that there is no definitive proof that H.H. was the one who got ahold of this collection: it's just that he's a bit of info you DO know, and you've gotta start out from the known to venture into the unknown.---Nursing homes! I used to work as a NA and know quite well what detailed and encyclopedic memories the residents can have. Call up the activities director: "Do you have any residents who really, really like plants...?" If you discover that H.H. was a member of, say, the Syracuse Friends of Scandinavia, you could call and see if there are any residents who just might have belonged to this group or remember it, who would like to take a look at a scrapbook or two...

    Somewhere out there is a newspaper clipping yellowed with age---a grainy photograph of a self-consciously mustachioed gentleman surrounded by Scandinavian impedimenta. Its caption: "Mr. Howard Hall, with some quaint objects acquired during his recent trip to Sweden"---at his feet, open to display its glorious contents, is the wooden case, its vials shining in the light. I know it!!! As Hercule Poirot said, to unravel a mystery one has to keep tugging at every thread...till one loosens, just a bit...pull on it, and the whole thing begins to untangle itself. You've got to pull on the threads, and you've got a LOT of 'em!

    The MOST EXCELLENT luck to you in your quest, tgeer!
     
  14. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hello Everyone!

    I just wanted to give a quick update on this story! As I wrote in the past, we contacted PBS "History Detectives" and forwarded this story regarding these "seed samples and case". We received a response from them informing us that the story will be forwarded on to the producer and he will make the decision whether to pursue this or not. All the feedback we have received from other people think this would make a wonderful story/investigation. The "History Detectives" receive thousands of request each year and it comes down to the producer who selects which ones he feels important in History & Interesting for viewers.

    I am asking people to call and or write PBS and see if they can help with our investigation into this story. There is no better place to ask for peoples help than right here on this site. As I have stated in the past that if these seeds/case are in some way related to Carl Von Linnes Botanical Garden and are deemed important enough to be placed in a Museum I will do so. I highly respect history in general and think it is of up-most importance to learn, educate, and to share for all people young and old. With these trying times in the world today it is very hard to spend a lot of time/money investigating and researching items that might be of importance. That is why I am asking for your help. Thank you very much for taking the time to read this and also for all your help in the past.
    Sincerely
    Tom & J'Nell
     
  15. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Do you have an address/phone number? Should we write to the show, or to our local station?

    What great news!!! Wow! I would LOVE to see this on TV!!! And even more, I would love to hear and see the solution of this mystery! Terrific!
     
  16. C.Wick

    C.Wick Active Member

    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atchison
    As would I....the PBS network I'm sure has feelers out there in every direction that can help (tv is money).....would be facinating to get an answear here.
     
  17. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Perhaps our intrepid moderator, Daniel, could weigh in on this issue and lend his official voice to getting this story on the air!

    I've tried googling "History Detectives"---there is a page for "Submit Your Mystery". Should we all use this as our device...? I'm thinking that all of us writing to the same place may have more impact than if we diversify. What do you think?
     
  18. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hi Everyone,

    Please post your wishes to see the story developed by the "History Detectives" at their web site under "submit your stories". There is also a viewer mailbag at pbs.org to which you can send a similar request. For those of you on facebook there is a "History Detectives" group which I think is a great way to voice your desire to see if they can help us. Also on facebook there is a Carl Linneaus group. Also suggested Daniel (moderator of this site) could also be of great help to us.

    Thanks!
     
  19. Liz

    Liz Well-Known Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Victoria Australia [cool temperate]
    Did anything ever happen re this very interesting thread

    Liz
     
  20. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    philly, pa, usa 6b
    oh, wow! i didn't see the posts about submitting story ideas to the shows.

    well, even though it's far past the original requests, we can still do that. in fact, if either show had thought about it and passed it by, the additional suggestions/obvious still an interest in the story may actually spur them on to do a show on these seeds!
     
  21. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hi All,
    Here is a quick update on the seed samples. Back in February, we wrote to both History Detectives and Antique Roadshow. We did get a reply from History Detectives informing us that our story had made the first cut, and would be reviewed by producers. Since then, we have heard nothing. We have not been very aggressive with our research lately due to a busy schedule. We are hoping to pursue a viable means of sharing our true "gift" with the world. Writing to History Detectives with a request to see this investigated further is still our best option we feel. If anyone knows of a better option, please share your ideas or share the thread with the appropriate contact for review. Thanks all for all your support and interest. We will hopefully find a way to publicly share our treasure with those who appreciate it's value worldwide.
    Sincerely,
    TGeer2
     
  22. togata57

    togata57 Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    3,254
    Likes Received:
    224
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Thanks for the update, tgeer! I sincerely hope that the H.D.s realize what a unique treasure yours is, and that they will be able to reveal to us all the amazing journey that this collection has made through the years. Write, call, email, mail, fax, or Pony Express! Success to you.
     
  23. tgeer2

    tgeer2 Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    syracuse, USA
    Hi Everyone!
    We are starting up again and putting on our detective caps to try and resolve resolve this mystery on our hands. We have been very busy and just haven't had the time to dedicate to this matter. Any and all help would be appreciated and we will keep you posted. We will start with local newspapers and institutes for help this time! Thanks all - Take care.
     
  24. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

    Messages:
    2,707
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    philly, pa, usa 6b
    good luck and please keep us posted on what's happening!!
     
  25. 318830

    318830 Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    ok... I am totally new here... and I am totally hooked! I agree with togata57... go to a media source, and they may pursue it as a human interest story... and we are all hooked... it'll catch, and you'll get your answers.
    that being said... go to you're local university... local museum... inquire about archives (a slight aside, but where I live (Calgary, AB Canada), we have a museum, and there are archives of Calgary history (land parcel divisions, with names of owners, occupations, etc, tonnes of old photos are stored in indexes, large books with different maps and charts full of information, and names/family names were very searchable... and the staff helped me with my research, and it was an amazing free resource I used throughout my post secondary years)... a university, library or museum should be able to assist or at the very least direct you.

    again I am hooked, and I will follow this saga!
     

Share This Page