Usual size of Acer palmatum "Filigree"?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by copperbeech, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    In another thread JT1 had wisely suggested that given some maples may be much more difficult to find than others it can be worthwhile to look for more readily available plants.

    In this light I am considering the basic Acer palmatum "Filigree". I am just wondering of those of you that have this JM, what do you think of it?

    Can it thrive in lots of shade?

    And importantly for me how large is it likely to become after say...7 years? Can it be aesthetically maintained to a height of less than 4 feet and a width of about the same?

    Thanks for your advice.
     
  2. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    1,352
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, England
    Mine is in a pot and it is undoubtedly slow growing. I have not tried to grow it in the ground but I am pretty sure you would be struggling to get it to four feet high in seven years without an intensive feeding regime.

    It can seem a little difficult to settle and certainly will struggle in a hot climate if it is in full sun. But, yes, in shade/semi-shade it is a good choice, if you want a plant that grows slower than the regular dissectums.
     
  3. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    Thanks maf for the information. Do you consider this an 'impressive' smaller JM ? I ask this as I have limited room for any trees but I have recently found a place for an Acer shirasawanum 'Aureum'. I have room for one more small one which will be located in a significant shade aspect. So as my JM collection will be a total of 2 I need them both to be 'eye catchers'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  4. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

    Messages:
    750
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    KS -> northern AL, USA
    Though mine is only a small 4yr graft (I've had it one year), I absolutely LOVE my Filigree - so much so, I'm contemplating buying a larger/older one next year for more 'instant gratification'. The leaves have more substance to them than many dissectums, but at the same time, the way the leaf is cut/shaped, it has a very light, airy, almost fern-like feel to it. I wish there was a red equivalent to it, I would snatch it up in a heartbeat.

    Here in Kansas, summer sun is hot and intense, and rather different than summer sun in many other places. Up until this spring, it was in a pot; I ended up planting it along the retaining wall edging our walk-out basement where it gets a bit of morning sun, then varying dappled sun/shade the rest of the day. So far, it seems to like this spot. When it was in the pot, if it got more than a few hours of sun in the morning, it seemed to turn crispy rather fast, so based on my experience, more shade would be better than a sunnier location. The only drawback is you do lose a little of the white speckling on the leaves if it is in too much shade. But even so, it's a beautiful tree in my book. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  5. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,453
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    "I wish there was a red equivalent to it, I would snatch it up in a heartbeat."

    Pink Filigree? ;)
     
  6. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    I have mine growing in a tight location next to my garage. I have had it there for six years and it is only about 4' high by 3'. It seems to be really slow growing and considering that I have it in a challenging location (very little sun, wet, especially in spring when runoff from my house tends to sit in the area it's planted) it has done well. It probably would have been bigger in a better location, but I, too, wanted something small that would not grow into my driveway. As mentioned, the leaves are really nice, reminds me of that "ghost" kind of spikey edge. Hope that helps.
    Kay
     
  7. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

    Messages:
    1,356
    Likes Received:
    363
    Location:
    Euclid, OH USA
    I have experience growing this tree in both sun and shade. Shade is best for this tree if you want it to do everything it supposed to do in spring. (In sun, the tree becomes very green, the leaves grow large with very sharply toothed leaf margins. The long sharp toothed leaf margins will quickly start to dry out)

    In shade (ideally with some early morning sun), the spring color is at its best:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanesemaplegarden/6146534099/in/set-72157627668717234

    Fall color changes throughout the season:

    Red veins with yellow leaves, early fall-
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanesemaplegarden/8106819893/in/photostream/

    Mid fall showing tree size and form (back right corner of the patio)-
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanesemaplegarden/8096923270/in/photostream

    Peak color-
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanesemaplegarden/8106161388/in/photostream/

    Like others say, it's very slow growing. I never use fertilizer on mine. Mine is very old. The grafting height will play a big role in the ultimate height. For your purpose I recommend a low to medium graft. Mine was grafted on standard (high graft), so it is much taller.

    I think this tree has summer appeal too, because the leaves are very soft and delicate. Everyone always reaches out and touches the leaves on my Filigree in the summer (so soft and delicate looking, they can't resist). A valuable tree to have in any collection.

    A very slow growing red companion with a delicate appearance for a shady location would be Acer palmatum 'red filigree lace'. I believe I saw it listed on your growers website too. Also, it’s a nice companion due to the cool "play on words" being so similar. Both great trees for a collector to own, because they are both so unique.

    Both are very easy to keep the size you want. Because they are both so slow growing and unique, they are both hard to come by in my area. I am very happy to have both in my collection.
     
  8. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    Thanks for the replies (JT1, kay, emery and maplesandpaws). With these endorsements I will now most likely obtain a 'Filigree' this spring (rather than a harder to find 'Brandt's Dwarf').

    JT1 the leaf pictures you linked for me were superb. Do you also have a shot showing this plant in its entirety?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  9. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

    Messages:
    1,356
    Likes Received:
    363
    Location:
    Euclid, OH USA
    It's not the best shot, but it gives the spring color and form from a distance. This is when I had 'Filigree planted in the landscape. It's in the center background of the photo (along the green hedge, it has a soft open appearance in early spring)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanesemaplegarden/6147084372/in/set-72157627668717234/

    Here is a photo with 'Aureum' and 'Filigree' is in the foreground to the right.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/japanesemaplegarden/6147087166/in/set-72157627668717234/

    I will see if I can find a better picture.
     
  10. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    Btw, is "Filigree" different than "Green Filigree"? I ask as I see davidsansjapanesemaples lists them separately with a different description for each.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  11. pat bateman

    pat bateman Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nottingham, England
    "I wish there was a red equivalent to it, I would snatch it up in a heartbeat."

    That would be red filigree lace. The leaves are impossibly fine and hold their red/purple colour really well but it is soooo slow growing. I started off with 8 grafts but only have 3 now - they are very easy to kill if you over water them in spring. Sorry about the poor photo - they were three years old at the time. One is still only 6" tall and about as wide.

    I've never seen one for retail sale - I got mine from eBay !
     

    Attached Files:

  12. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

    Messages:
    1,356
    Likes Received:
    363
    Location:
    Euclid, OH USA
    I don't own one, but there is a Acer palmatum 'Pink Filigree'

    http://www.buchholznursery.com/plant_page.html?id=26e5bd

    I have red filigree too, but I don't think either red or pink filigree have the diverse coloring like 'filigree'. I too wish there was a red variety that did what 'Filigree' does in the spring.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  13. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

    Messages:
    750
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    KS -> northern AL, USA
    I did look up Pink Filigree, and it does intrigue - definitely the closest I've seen to Filigree. What I love so much about Filigree is the size and shape of the leaves, and that's what I'm hoping to find in a red version. I know the red dissectums typically hold up fairly well in heat and sun, but with the type of summers we've been having - 2 or more months of 100F, barely hitting 80F at night, and then next to no rain - the really finely dissected leaves just shrivel up to nothing so quickly.

    As for Filigree and Green Filigree being the same or different cultivars, that I'm not sure of. I know Filigree, because it is green, can often be referred to as Green Filigree by many people/places, but whether there is a true separate cultivar with the name Green Filigree, I couldn't tell you...
     
  14. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    UPDATE:

    Funny you mention this "JT1" as I spoke to one of my favourite nurseries on Monday hoping they could bring in a "Filigree" for next spring i.e. 2013 and I was told that in fact they had still had several "Filigree" in stock right now with several around 5 feet in height. He explained they were extra tall as the graft was quite high on these certain plants. The price of these were over $400 but he would sell any of them for half price.....I may have to take a trip over there to take a look at these now naked trees :).
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  15. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

    Messages:
    1,356
    Likes Received:
    363
    Location:
    Euclid, OH USA
    Good idea, maybe it will work in your desired location, or you can find a nice spot for it in your yard. Sometimes you have to be flexible, when you find a tree you want, but it’s not right for the intended spot. Improvise and find a new spot in the landscape. If it's a beautiful specimen, then it’s always worth it. Take a pen and pad of paper, check out the other varieties they have and research them further when you get back home (or via Google on a smart phone while you are there). It may be a great opportunity to build a nice collection at 50% off. Maybe they will over-winter the trees for you. Then you can pick them up or have them delivered come spring.

    Since you are a budding Maple nut, you may want to consider picking up the Timber Press Pocket Guide to Japanese Maples (Timber Press Pocket Guides) [Illustrated] [Paperback]

    I think amazon and other online retailers sell it for 13.00-15.00. It's a nice little durable book that is easy to take to the nursery for a quick reference. Keep the larger books at home as a reference and take this one on road trips to the nursery.
     
  16. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    Thanks for the encouragement. After planting the Acer "Aureum" last month I have only room for one (much) smaller one (I hope "Filigree") and I have another spot set aside for something rarer and small, or very slow growing (right now an "Olsen Frosted Strawberry"). There is no more room for anymore on my current residential property. But as one says it is quality not quantity ;).

    So discovering now that there are "Filigrees" still available I am debating whether I take the very good price on a high grafted "Filigree" which will grow too tall or wait till next year to get a more dwarf specimen w/o the discount.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  17. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    You are right on. I really don't want to plant it now and I dont want to take the chance of it not surviving in the pot in my garage but the nursery is more than willing to keep care of it until the spring as long as I decide to buy it now (50% off). But I really do need to visit the nursery this week to see how large these "Filigree" really are.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  18. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    Thanks for this kay. Do you have a picture or two of your "Filigree" that you could post?
     
  19. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
  20. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    I have a couple on my blog, but they are from 2012. Still, like I said it's slow growing and doesn't look much different in 2012.

    http://pintomaples.blogspot.com/2010/06/acer-palmatum-filigree.html

    Well, it didn't link, but you can cut and paste, I guess. Let me know if it doesn't go to the page and I will put the pictures directly on.
    Kay
     
  21. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    Well, it looks like it did link after all. I am using this blog to track all my maples over the years. I try to keep a record with new photos every couple years.
     
  22. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    Thank you 'kay'. It is a nice looking plant. (I enjoyed looking through your complete inventory of JM.)
     
  23. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Live in Mapleton, Illinois, zone 5
    Thanks. It needs updating, but I'll probably wait until next year except for the inventory part.
     
  24. copperbeech

    copperbeech Active Member

    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Greater Toronto Area
    So I went over to the nursery this morning. It was impossible to get at any of the "Filigree" (at least 4) as all the tender trees (fruit, other JM, etc) were completely surrounding them at the back of a protecting 'hoop house'. From what I could see they were about 4 feet in height in maybe a 10 gallon container. The price was a whopping $699 but he was asking $300.
     

Share This Page