We're planning our first vegetable garden in our first house. We moved in Sep 1st and didn't pay too much attention to preparing the soil for spring. The site we've got available for our veg. garden (fyi, approx 10'x45') had only dandelions growing in it - I don't know if it was a garden before or not (all the surrounding area is grass). We're planning on checking the soil nutrient levels in spring, but my question is about tilling the existing soil. Will rototilling the dandelions back into the soil be ok? I'm worried about lots of seeds sprouting and competing with my veggies. I know we can dig out the top layer, but my husband would prefer just to run the tilling machine over the whole area and be done with it. We have noticed lots of worms in other parts of the yard, so have hopes that the soil is good, but I want to give our veg's all the help I can, since we're so far north. Thanks!
The established dandelions should be removed before you try to grow veggies in this spot. Sorry, but you'll quickly lose the battle if you just till those weeds then plant veggies. First problem is the dandelion roots will produce new plants even if chopped up into quite small pieces. I would try to run over the area once only with the tiller to loosen the soil and intact roots, then go to the trouble of raking then handpicking all the dandelion roots I could find. It is way less work at that point than trying to pull growing dandelion plants out of the veggie patch, disturbing your crop along the way. Then till the soil the way you want it before sowing/planting the crop. You mention possible seeds in the soil, I agree. These may be pretty bad first year, try to hoe and handweed early and get most of them, and never let more set seed. It should get better as the years go by...or there may be very few from the start if you're lucky! Any area that you can plant a bit later will allow you to run over quickly with a hoe and get that first "crop" or two of weeds killed, cutting down on the seed bank that has possibly built up. Also some crops are easier to keep weeded, big stuff like potatoes, corn and squash are easy to hoe around, getting a lot of weeds with little effort. Get ready for labour intensive growing if you do carrots, lettuce or similar small seeded things...hand picking weeds out from between the carrot seedlings is one of those labours of love (love those home grown carrots, of course).
You know you can eat dandelions, right? And make dandelion wine? And you can roast the roots to make like coffee grounds?
This area cleared last year 2006 is similar to your situation. http://xrl.us/nqb9 The pictures above indicate the work in progress. Today 30 April 2006 Zone 5 I decided to enlarge my vegetable garden by 8 feet. It is 36 feet long. First I removed the sod with a kick sod cutter, then spaded about a foot deep, then rototilled the lumps, then raked the chunks that wouldn't crumble. Today's effort took me about 8 hours. It is a real good workout. I broke the sod by hand and put it through a Yard Machine to shred the clumps and put it back onto the bed. This took about three hours. Not a bit of grass came up later in the season. The Yard Machine effectively killed the grass roots. http://xrl.us/nqca Adding compost to my new bed. I can only pick up about half a cubic yard per day from the city, so it will take me a few days to complete the bed. I worked it in well with the underlying soil using my new Honda mini-tiller. I will add about three cubic yards. I think the pictures depict the high quality of the compost. I can purchase this compost for $40.00 per yard, but I prefer the free compost and don't object to the labour. I pick up about half a yard per day. Two fourty five gallon garbage cans. I have a wooden box in the back of the van that takes exactly one-half yard. http://xrl.us/nqcb 7 May 2006. I decided to add some fiber to the new garden bed. The tree mulch was put through my yard machine to make smaller pieces then spread over the bed, and worked in with my new Honda mini rototiller. Now all I need is some rain and then I will plant my vegetables. http://xrl.us/ntyj Pictures of what is growing in the enlarged bed on 30 June 2006. Apparently the effort was not in vain. All plants are growing extremely well. Durgan.
Well! I have the time, the land and interest. Actually it takes very little effort, particularly with the appropiate small gardening tools available today. Unfortunately, one must have a piece of property of sufficient size to warrant the cost of many of these tools. The other choice is shovel, fork, machette, rake, and hoe; which tends to discourage most people. My situation is that I am between hand tools and small tractor tools, sort of an ideal situation. My tools are; small tiller, larger tiller, kick sod cutter, yard machine for reducing plants for composting, Small riding lawnmower for fun as opposed to necessity and the price was right, push power lawn mower, and the various muscle garden tools. I also have a van with a box set in the back for transporting soil additives by about half a cubic yard at a time. Also I live in instant time, and must complete any minor project in the quickest manner possible, with functionality being probably the most pressing concern. My two-bits worth.
Not to hijack this post but I'm of the rake, hoe, shovel and fork group that doesn't have a large enough space to warrant getting a small power tool like a rototiller etc. I do okay with the manual labour and if I don't try and get the entire garden turned over in one day it's not so bad. What I really need is more nutrition in my soil for the plants - it's coming but slowly.
Thanks for the responses. We also only have a rake and shovel, but can rent a tractor tiller from my husband's work. He thinks we should use a weed killer and then till everything, but from people's responses I'm wondering if that will be enough to kill the dandelions. What I'm wondering is, should we borrow a small tiller, and clear the weed clumps out, then tractor till? Or just weedkill and till the whole thing? btw, that "Yard Machine" that grinds up clods sure sounds handy. Too bad we don't have one!
Using weed killer would certainly get rid of the weeds but what consequences will you have for your garden afterwards? I know that weed killers come in 2 types, those that kill established plants and those that prevent seeds from growing. If you are planning on using this area for a vegetable garden (or even a flower garden) it could be that the weed killer that you use might affect the plant or seed you sow in the ground later on. I would suggest just tilling the soil; pick out the big clumps first. Tilling will bury many of the seeds and small seedlings that might have started to grow and any periennal weeds like dandelions will be easier to remove (when they decide to start growing again) because their roots won't be secure in the ground. Anne
I think I read somewhere (some other post) that the City of Vancouver has vegetative compost for the public. It might be worth while calling the city to find out. To my way of thinking I have never found a better supplement for a vegetable garden. Durgan.
I wasn't aware of that. I know that they have location close by us where you can take your clipping and yard refuse for composting and the city has a weekly pick-up on garbage days for any yard refuse that is in clear plastic bags. I never gave it much thought as to what they did with all the compost they made!
plastic helpful? Thanks for all the responses. What if we do the prep, tilling, etc, then plant using black plastic to warm the soil and keep weeds down? I know this is almost a new question, sorry, but it's the same garden with dandelion seed problems. =) (btw, I can finally see the ground! There's lots of dead weeds, but it's mostly mud right now from the melting snow. Hallelujah for spring!)
You might have to think a little smaller in the initial area you want to plant. Start by preparing an area for a couple of beds by really cleaning it out manually. A fork might be easer than a spade. Turn it every couple of weeks to really get the weeds out. You might want to do your black plastic trick on the rest of it but it might also cook the animal life in the soil and make it a bit sterile. I think Roundup made up to the correct proportions for broad leaf is acceptable for that first clean up. Use it in the correct weather. OR just keep hoeing it till you are ready to prepare it by digging over and working manure and compost into it. Constantly pulling the weeds. You might also consider raised beds once you have cleaned the weeds properly and build your soil up inside the long or square or what ever boxes. A vegetable patch takes time to develop but when fully operational should be a breeze to maintain and rotate crops. You could also do some of your vegetables like picking lettuce, shallots beans cucumbers, tomatoes in large pots untill your soil is weed free and well developed for a permanent veg patch. Liz
