Identification: Taki-nioi (was Jo-nioi)

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by Douglas Justice, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    The rarely cultivated (and seldom recognized) cultivar 'Jo-nioi' ("supreme scent") is coming into bloom at Nitobe Memorial Garden. The scent of the flowers is like crushed almonds. Photo taken 17 April.
     

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  2. jimmyq

    jimmyq Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Re: Jo-nioi

    cool, thanks Douglas.
     
  3. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Jo-nioi

    I continue to suspect finds like this will turn out to be the same cultivars we have down here. They don't all have to be, of course, but when Jacobson (1996) didn't list one for North America then that for me casts doubt on that cultivar being present prior to that time.

    Some years ago I did find a distinctive purpleleaf plum, with double palest pink (appearing white) flowers marked occasionally with dark pink/light purple that he has no information for growing on a Seattle street. Jacobson assumed then it was a one-of-a-kind variant that had not been circulated, and may still believe so (it appears in PURPLELEAF PLUMS only briefly, as the "mystery variety" at the start of the key). However, right after discovering the Seattle specimen I almost immediately found photos of two other examples of what to me are clearly the same form in the version of the Ortho Japanese Gardening book in print at that time (it is different now, has no pictures of the plum anymore that I have seen flipping through it). One of the shots called it 'Hollywood', which is almost certainly wrong.

    This brings up another aspect of the situation, cultivars not being accounted for because they were introduced and circulated under the wrong names.

    So, yes, they're not all in Arthur's book but one not being in there should definitely be cause for caution when applying names to found trees.

    If you could put up another shot of this with flowers out more, and centers visible so I can compare it with those down here (being called 'Hosokawa-nioi' by Jacobson) it would be great. Ideally I would bring identified specimens of various cherries up from Seattle for you to compare with those there but my passport has recently expired and maybe agricultural restrictions wouldn't allow it anyway.

    So far, going by this one shot alone the Nitobe tree seems to have new leaves and calyces with a purple or reddish tinting not typical of those here, and drooping pedicels unlike those of the cultivar here. Can't make out the edges of the sepals.
     
  4. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Jo-nioi

    I was in a bit of a hurry the other day, plus the flowers were barely starting to open, hence the less-than-ideal shot. I will endeavour to accommodate the next time I drop in at Nitobe.

    Frankly, I'm just glad there are other people who appear to share my obsess...er, love of trees. For years, I felt like I was groping in the dark with flowering cherries. Now it feels like I at least have some company, and there are a couple of flashlights available.

    I'm sincere when I say that I don't care if I'm off on an identification, as long as I can discover or be shown where I'm wrong. There's nothing more frustrating for me than to see a plant and not know what it is. I don't mind sticking my neck out when it comes to naming plants. Anyway, here on the forums, it seems to have the desired effect; i.e., to attract comments from people. As they say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
     
  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Jo-nioi

    Just so you don't attract any groping.

    Next I have to pick one here and compare with your shots, they will soon be past this year so it's possible we won't be able to do it this time.
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Jo-nioi

    Here's the tree and today's blossoms.
     

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  7. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Jo-nioi

    Photos taken 23 April.
     

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  8. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Taki-nioi

    I've been so bold as to rename this thread to Taki-nioi, as I've heard Douglas say he thinks it may be this and not Jo-nioi. The difference is supposed to be that on Taki-nioi the young foliage is bronze-brown instead of green. The foliage colour was very striking yesterday - not green at all. These photos are from May 7, 2008, the same tree in Nitobe Garden.
     

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  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Yes, its new leaves look quite dark. The one seen down here, being called 'Hosokawa-nioi' by Jacobson and often mixed with 'Shirotae' in plantings is different. Wonder if this UBC tree might be the same as one or two others shown on other threads here, for instance the one photographed at Van Dusen and posted on the Shaughnessy Neighbourhood Blog as 'Jo-nioi'. In Anne Eng's pictures the leaves and flowers resemble those of the UBC "Jo-nioi". Maybe their labeling is based on the previous identification of the UBC tree. Possibly although pretty big the VanDusen tree might even turn out to be propagated from the UBC one, or have some other connection.

    This page has four close-ups of 'Taki-nioi' at Brooklyn Botanic Garden.

    http://www.bbg.org/discover/cherries/taki-nioi/

    Jacobson (1996) says the cultivar has been on this continent since before 1919, in nurseries by 1934, and that 'Gozanoma-nioi' is similar.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2011

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