Sun tolerance/requirements of Orange Dream and Seiryu?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by kaspian, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Maine coast, USA, zone 5
    Inspired by the "only three" thread, I've decided to take a chance on some late-season planting of a few new maple varieties while there's still time (I hope) to get them settled in before winter.

    Can anyone comment from personal experience about the relative sun needs and tolerance of the varieties A. palmatum 'Orange Dream' and 'Seiryu'? I've got two spots in mind:

    - Spot A is in open woodland where the plant will receive intermittent spells of direct sun through the morning and dappled sunlight through early afternoon, with mostly full shade thereafter. The soil is loose and free-draining with lots of organic matter.

    - Spot B is more open to direct sun from mid-morning until shortly after noon, with weak dappled sunlight thereafter. The soil is poor and gritty. (I've got two shirasawanums and an A. triflorum growing in this same soil and doing well, however.) This is probably where the more rugged and vigorous of the two should go.

    I'm also going to take the plunge and try growing an A. shirasawanum 'Aureum,' though this of course gets the primo spot in a direct line-of-sight from my back door.

    Thanks for any comments!
     
  2. prairiestyle

    prairiestyle Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Omaha, NE, USA
    I believe the 'Seiryu' is the more sun-tolerant/tougher of the two. Mine gets direct sun from about 9:00 am to 3:00 pm in fairly heavy clay soil, and seems quite unfazed by it. I've read that 'Orange Dream' will burn if it gets too much sun and is more finnicky in general- though I can't say from experience.
     
  3. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    I think Orange Dream is less finicky than Katsura, which is one of its charms. But it doesn't like sun much, and is sensitive to wind burn. I have one growing very successfully in almost full shade and quite wind protected (although it sometimes gets whipped around), just a little dappled sun in the early afternoon. A second Orange Dream, now gone, got some more sun in the late afternoon, and burned quite a lot, wasn't very attractive late in the season. If you want a similar effect for a spot with more sun I'd suggest A. shirasawanum 'Autumn Moon.'

    I had a Seiryu that just succumbed to verticillium, in full sun. I think this was always a sick plant, but there is no question that the sun stressed it further. Still by most accounts this cultivar does well in the light. The "Pocket Guide" lists it under "Maples for full sun."

    HTH

    -E
     
  4. tjcher

    tjcher Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    United States
    My Seiryu continues to impress. It is in full sun here in Colorado, which is very intense in the summer. No leaf burn -- appears to be thriving.
    Tom
     
  5. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Maine coast, USA, zone 5
    Thanks for these rapid replies!

    I think it's safe to say that "full sun" in Maine is not the same thing as in Nebraska or Colorado. We are closer in latitude to Normandie. It sounds like 'Seiryu' might be the better candidate for the sunny spot, anyway.

    Does 'Orange Dream' need to be seen up close for its subtle color changes to be appreciated?
     
  6. 01876

    01876 Active Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Mass US
    FYI. my potted Orange Dream has been experimentally relocated 3 times for past 3 years and I’m still not sure where I’d like to plant it in ground for its best performance (in spring). It was started with couple hours morning sun under an oak tree and it was too “green”. Then I moved it to another location where it received about 5 hours morning sun and the spring new foliage color turned to be more yellowish. This spring it finally showed some “orange” by letting it sit under full sun but this tone did not last too long, it then turned to whitish and got burnt in mid June. I guess I’m still looking for a perfect location for mine ;(
    BTW, my Seiryu has been happy and healthy in full sun for years.
     
  7. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    ROME Italy zone9/b
    i have O.dream and Seiryu together in open sun zone 9b ,for Seiiyu no problem is very sun tollerate, O.dream many leaves burned the first year (2008)this summer only few leaves burned...the color remain good! O.dream is select by www.gilardelli.it
     
  8. kaspian

    kaspian Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Maine coast, USA, zone 5
    Thanks to everyone for their feedback in this thread. It has been very reassuring.
     
  9. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,160
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Seiryu is tough as nails. I spotted one at the Dallas FW airport growing in the midst of concrete and asphault in 100+ degree weather and appearing to be quite content. This tree has to be 15 years old.

    As for Orange Dream, mine seems to be doing well in a morning sun / dappled shade situation. For color, however, my Ueno yama flattened everything else in the garden this spring, including Orange Dream. It was like neon!
     
  10. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,427
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Might be worth noting that OD is kind of uneven year to year, even in the same exposition. This year mine was a sort of yellowy orange, not too showy, but the two previous years it was truly spectacular.

    OD has got to be one of the top introductions in recent years.

    -E
     
  11. mattlwfowler

    mattlwfowler Active Member Maple Society

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina, USA
    Ueno yama is more sun tolerant than Orange dream in my experience too. Orange dream will burn in a hurry if in 6 hours or more (even morning sun) here in SC, but Ueno yama will not burn much even in about 8 hours of morning sun for me. However, Ueno yama leafs out a good week earlier than my Ueno yama and will likely need protecting from spring frosts in exposed areas.

    I've never seen Seiryu burn up bad unless over fertilized.
     
  12. winterhaven

    winterhaven Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Western Washington, USA
    Hmm. Seems like the topic has been well covered.

    But I would like to add that, for me, what I loved about my OD the first growing season that I had it was that after the beautiful orange shadings of the spring the tree gave me an ever changing view. Orange slowly transitioned into yellow. For almost all of the summer I got to see yellow, then a short period of yellowish green (almost lime) and then more yellow. In that location in the Pacific NW the tree received direct morning light, then a break of shade, then a little afternoon light, then dappled light.

    I had to move the tree to keep hubby happy - he didn't like having a tree in that location. So I moved it to where it glowed in the spring and then green, green, green. Too much shade.

    So I moved it again. Coincidentally into the same island as my Ueno yama (which was a mystery tree I thought was a Ueno yama but vacillated between calling a Ueno yama and a Katsura - but I was able to find a small Ueno yama that I placed right next to the large unknown and watched what they did together for almost a full growing season. As they performed almost identically I'm calling my large tree Ueno yama). The two trees are only about 15 feet apart but still have slightly different sun exposures. UY is getting shade a little earlier than OD. For full performance the UY could handle a little more sun, but it's so happy there I'm leaving well enough alone - for now.

    I don't think the OD got burnt, but it was close and I did see some heat distress. Keep in mind this tree only got put out in that location in late spring, so it was not in any way established. We had a drought and heat wave here for three months while I was carrying an overloaded class schedule and working part time so the garden did not get the attention it deserved. I definitely sympathize more with you people out there growing maples in the heat. I was watering everything by hand and about pulled my hair out! But OD looks pretty great now.

    Um. I'll try and grab a shot of the triangle bed so you can see the contrast between the color of the Ueno yama and the OD. Right now OD has a lot of yellow shadings and UY is almost entirely green. When UD was mostly green UY had its second flush of growth and sparkled with some yellow (orange edgings on the leaves and very pretty) highlights. And of course I did not get any pics, drat.

    My experience with both trees so far is that I enjoy them both the most when they are placed where they get almost too much sun. BTW, it is possible to burn the UY, I've done it. That tree has lived in multiple locations at three different houses. When I lived in Sequim it was placed for one year in a spot where it got sun from about 10:00am to about 5:00pm. When I put it at its location I miscalculated how much sun it would get and it got burned to the point of die back.

    Oh and in response...
    Define close - I'm nearsighted, so close to me means standing next to the tree. With that in mind, not for me with the tree in the right amount of sun. I've placed mine where I drive by it. But to be fully appreciated... you can see more of the glory right up close for both OD and UY.

    Went out to shoot some pics - I had enough battery for this one blurry shot. Yes, OD has some leaf burn. Still looks great from about ten feet away. The brightest in the island is a Yellow Frisia Locust. The UY is (from our perspective looking at the picture) to the right and the OD is smaller and to the left).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  13. paxi

    paxi Active Member

    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Sorry - this probably doesn't add much but just to reinforce: My seiryu is doing well in a sunny location. I had one beautiful orange dream tree that i killed by transplanting just before summer began and baked quickly in a too sunny location. I now have a new one in a location with mostly filtered light and it seems to doing nicely. My orange color lasted about 3-4 weeks. I find the summer color to be a pleasing yellow green. Great choices that deserve to be on everyone's top three list :)
     

Share This Page