Suggestions

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Cattwooduk, Jun 22, 2022.

  1. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Hi all, I'm looking for some suggestions for a green, possibly darker green maple. It will need to tolerate full sun, and fairly high heat as it will be on a west facing position (sun from noon-8pm) in front of our bay window, so heat and light reflected off the house front. It will be between a Pung Kil and a Summer Gold, which is why I was thinking a darker green for maximum contrast.
    It also needs to be either cascading, or preferable more mounding/spreading... At the very least not so upright in growth that pruning can keep it below 5' without making it look silly.

    So far my thoughts are -

    Mikawa Yatsubusa - hard to find
    Emerald Lace - maybe a little too 'bright' green
    Japanese Sunrise
    Shishigashira - maybe too upright?
    Chitoseyama - maybe not full sun? - I really like the dull grey-green leaves on this but don't know much about it

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
  2. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Omureyama -The best weeper you will find out there that's not a dissectum with fall colours that are just stunning.
    Nicholsonii - Another well mounding tree with a three colour season change , very large leaved tree with vibrant red fall leaf. Both of these trees take full sun with no problems and are very fast growers and take well to heavy pruning.
     
  3. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Oh yes I'd forgotten Nicholsonii - my usual garden centre almost always have a couple and when I wander round they always catch my eye and I check to see why they are!
    Thanks!
     
  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    I agree with M @ROEBUK, Omureyama is an excellent green throughout Summer, and those Autumn colours are just a Wow.
     
  5. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Yeah having looked at some pictures Omureyama does look pretty spectacular in autumn! Looks like it gets quite big/tall though - will it take hard pruning enough to keep it tamed around 5' without spoiling it?

    As it's going under/in front of a window I need something 'bonsaiable' .

    I can only find them available at Burncoose for £80, but in a 7.5/10L pot so fairly established at least.

    Having looked at lots of photos and reading various sellers descriptions, chitoseyama and nicholsonii seem very similar more or less - red spring colour turning bronze/green in summer then vivid scarlet in autumn. The only difference I can see is chitoseyama may be more red if in full sun?
    Similar mounding/spreading/cascading habit, and similar leaf shape. Both lovely trees!

    Another one which may work is Sensu, from owners here it sounds like it will take a kicking from sun and heat, but I don't know much about it's growth habit? I've only had mine from Hippo for a few weeks and it's in morning sun then shade, so not sure what it's full sun colours would be. It's currently mostly red with green overlays towards the middle. It could be another candidate!
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Chris, this my 6 year old Chitoseyama, kept at around 2 ft in height to fit in to it's location. I prune each March before bud break and again to thin out in June/ July. This photo is after thinning a few days ago. As you can see, I like it to be open and airy. This is about as dark a green as it goes btw.
    20220623_112237.jpg
     
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  7. Otto Bjornson

    Otto Bjornson Well-Known Member

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    If you like the shishigashira? checks the boxes with full sun, nice and compact, dark green thru out the summer. Beautiful fall colours as well, plus in the spring a bright green foilage opening.
    Our specimen is approx 50 years old now and I have pruned it to keep at the 6' ( just under 2 metres) mark for years. Always a conversation starter when walking thru the garden.
     

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  8. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    I'm really torn between the Nicholsonii and Chitoseyama... I can barely tell the difference from one photo to the next so I guess I couldn't go wrong with either.

    I have one I've put in a pot and keep it fairly small. They seem to be incredibly tough. It's an option for sure, but I like the idea of adding something new to the collection. As is the way with a collecting addict I suppose.
    Yours looks very grand, lovely job you've done a it its structure over the years!
     
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  9. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Helping hand for you with Nicholsonii some more pics of my big one at the top of the garden in full sun for most of the day. The spring it comes out a almost beige/sandy colour then changes to green for summer then a stunning crimson red in the fall. The other pics are of the full large leaf and the weeping habit it also achieves, that's this years growth. This was cut back hard on the top from last year , you can see the top upward branches i cut off in the fall pic , some inner growth was also removed.
     

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  10. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Omureyama will grow however you want it too , i have two one large ground grower and one potted the large one i cut back every other year , mainly on the inner part due to die back with the outer leaves blocking light , but this cultivar grows for fun!! Then a smaller potted one which again is very easy to look after i find , both have stunning fall colours as well. A couple of pics the potted from today and the large one from last fall.
     

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  11. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Those
    Fall colours are insane, I can see you're trying to persuade me to an Omureyama! Just hesitant about a mail order tree at £80, it's a bit of a trek for me to get down to Burncoose nursery!

    What is the tree to the left on the first picture?

    I'm heading back to the garden centre to pick up the trolley of stuff I put aside but didn't have time to buy on Tuesday haha. I'll see what they have - I highly doubt they'll have an Omureyama but nicholsonii and Chitoseyama much more likely.

    Anyone have a favourite between those two?
     
  12. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Only just noticed this post, I skipped right down to the Omureyama post when I saw it earlier.
    I really like that sort of sandy bronze green on the Nicholsonii in spring.
     
  13. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Stopped by the garden centre earlier, was hoping to find an Aureum and had a faint hope they may have an Omureyama - if they had one I would have seen it as fate and gone with that.
    Alas none in sight!

    I did buy something in the end but first I have a game... These photos are both of Nicholsonii and Chitoseyama in the same shot, can you guess which are which?

    And then guess which one I bought.
     

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  14. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Photo 1 Omurayama and photo 2 Nicholsonii, and I think you bought the latter. Bet I'm totally wrong Chris... lol.
     
  15. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    The first picture - top left bottom left the leaves are of Chitoseyama, Nicholsonii is on the right.

    The second picture, along the bottom is Chitoseyama and the top is Nicholsonii.

    There is such a small, subtle difference between the foliage. The Chitoseyama has the slightly more sandy leaves, and the Nicholsonii a little more 'fresh' green, although some of the outer leaves are impossible to tell apart.

    I went with the Nicholsonii in the end because they had a bigger one so it can fill out the space faster when I hopefully plant it this autumn. I'l add a picture later.
     
  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Look forward to seeing it Chris. The bigger ones are that much stronger than the small grafts, so you should have a lot of success.
     
  17. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Just to come back to this thread since I'm looking for more advice on my planting plan -

    Is anyone growing a Pung Kil in full sun? The spot I've got to fill is going to be pretty exposed to high heat and sun, close-ish to the house so reflected sun as well. I liked the idea of a linearilobum because of the 'open' habit from the leaves - the tree will be blocking evening sun coming into the front window during summer as the room gets incredibly hot, but I don't want to completely block out all the light.

    So I'm after something with either a fairly open habit or one which I can shape to let filtered light through without battling against rampant growth. Height ideally under 10'.
    Full sun/heat exposure.
    Red-purple

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
  18. wind-borne

    wind-borne Rising Contributor

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    I have a 'Hubbs Red Willow' in full sun surrounded by heat holding rocks, does bronze/green for a short spell during some summers


    Year round pictures here
    Acer palmatum 'Hubbs Red Willow'

    filtered afternoon sun in bronze /green phase
    DSCN9479.jpg
     
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  19. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    I really like that, it looks like a more upright Red Pygmy. Could work if I can find a half decent size one to get started.

    Alternatively I have been considering moving my Twombley's Red Sentinel into the spot, as they're meant to be able to take a good sun blasting. Plus After seeing @Acerholic post his with some reticulation I feel like I'm not making the most of mine in full shade.

    While I have this thread open for suggestions, another question relating to Trompenburg - I've read lots of sellers descriptions saying they're a small tree, up to 4m. Someone in the forum said they've seen a couple reach 20ft, the MrMaple youtube video shows a mature one at roughly that size I think and describe it as a pretty vigorous grower. Does anyone else have any info on the size of these?
     
  20. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have found Trompenburg to be a fairly restrained grower. Certainly less vigorous than many of the stronger growing cultivars. I have one in the ground that used to be in a pot and it has hardly grown in 4-5 years. Probably just getting the roots established and will push on in future years. Growth rate might vary depending how strong the rootstock is.

    As for Twombleys, this cultivar should not be reticulated and any pictures showing reticulation are a different cultivar that has been mis-labeled.
     
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  21. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head re rootstock - my Trompenburg is putting on amazing growth, was 50cm 2years ago now about 1.5m..whereas I have several other cultivars that are painfully slow..that other people have report good growth.

    re Twombleys - I’m sure I recall @Acerholic telling me it was reticulated..maybe my memory is failing me..mine is definitely not showing any signs of reticulation.
     
  22. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    Thanks for the info! Having looked around some more I'm thinking an Emperor 1/Red Emperor night be a good bet for one spot. It'll go alongside an Osakazuki at the front of my garden to grow up and shield the ground floor windows from afternoon sun - it gets so hot the room is almost unusable in summer. Both of these cultivars are meant to be tough as nails, and take full sun as well as exposure once established.

    Someone near me had one I walked past every day walking my dog, until last year in winter they hacked ALL the limbs off and left a stump, then a few weeks later dug the rest out to make space for another car to park on the garden. So sad, it must have been well over 20 years old, it was huge. I wish if I'd known I would have air layered every branch on it!!

    I'll do a little sketch up later to show my planned layout to give an idea because I've changed my plan so many times, it might help me having it on paper!
     
  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Firstly, re Trompenburg, mine is a very slow grower, but I belive it maybe in a dwarf rootstock. I'm quite happy about this, as I don't want it growing too large in it's position in my garden.
    Regarding Twombley's Red Sentinel, yes it is reticulated. Mine is struggling a lot in this hot weather. Not too sure if it will be with me in 2023.
     
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  24. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Active Member

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    I'd never heard of or suspected it was until you mentioned yours. Isn't it meant to be a sport from a bloodgood? I can't see how it would have developed reticulation.
     
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    This is a curious one tbh. It should be exactly as you stated Chris, but mine and others that I know of do have a bit of reticulation in them. Why !! I don't know...... Others I know of have no reticulation. Could well be a rootstock variation.This is one of the reasons we all love these trees, they are so changeable depending on location, positioning, rootstock etc etc etc.
     
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