Also please give facts on why you think it is P.abies and/or P.glauca and not just opinions. I don't think the colour is great way of distinguishing them. Let us not confuse ppl by comparing with the Abies family since Picea abies looks nothing like an Abies.
This tree is obviously a volunteer, not planted by human. The shape of the crown suggest strongly towards moderate to strong light deficiency during several recent years. As far as I can see, there is not a single hint towards P. glauca.
The reason why I guessed P.glauca was that the needles weren't flat as in P.abies(its name is a hint, the Abies family has flat needles/leaves) together with the brownish nodes. I certainly do not disagree with you as your knowledge in the area clealy outmatches mine by miles. I would just want to know why it is P.abies, facts, facts, facts. Regards, Araven
What do you mean by "flat needles"? P. abies has varying shape of needles: Norway spruce needle size and cross section shape variability induced by irradiance on a macro- and microscale and CO2 concentration | Request PDF Shape of needles on a shoot: Shape of individual needle:
Hey, The spruces(P.abies) I was looking at all had a near planar arrangement of needles(see your upper right corner pic), then again I was looking at young starving trees standing in shadow (of bigger P.abies in my case) like the one in question. My Abies comment was all wrong, I had A.koreana and A.alba seedlings in front of me when I wrote that, I should have known better especially since I have A.northmannia in the yard. Still you are attacking my Abies comment rather than telling us the differences between P.glauca and P.abies which I find is hard to id when P.glauca comes in so many varieties. But you clearly are knowledgable in the field so pls fill us in. Regards, Araven
Thanks for the article by the way. Its message is specifically that P.abies needle cross-section parameters differs very much depending on light.... I.e. its hard to draw conclusions regarding needle cross-section parameters unless you know the irradiance direction and strength. A starving specimen in shadow would most likely only have few short needles with a planar arrangement in the direction of the most light, which is exactly what I saw. Your picture is of what looks like a thriving sapling with plenty of light.
Sorry, I am not a native English speaker, maybe that is the reason, why it is hard for me to understand, how you can possibly see a near planar arrangement of needles from the upper right image I provided. A and B are both the same shoot, only from different angle. I took a photo from the same spruce on my yard from the shade part also, but even there its needles are not with a near planar arrangement. The zone on the photo below is from much shadier part than the spruce of the initial posting was growing. It's actually from dying zone where needles almost can't sustain any longer.
No, I think I misunderstood the pictures you posted, the abcd pics show no sign of a planar arrangement. I will go out and get a branch and take a photo, I will also take a photo of my A.koreana saplings so you understand what I mean(might take a few days). A dying zone on an adult tree is not the same as a starving sapling/semi-adult, I think we can agree on that? Regards, Araven
Yes, we agree on that. I just did not happen to have any starving semi-adult Norway spruce handy. This spruce, BTW, is planted ca 40 years ago.
Hey, it's -20C and half a m of snow currently so I am staying indoors(I come and go atm, I am not usually here in winter - it's my summer house). However I can describe what I saw, one side of all branches is fully planar, the other side is dominated by needles in a 20-30 degree angle(what I called semi-planar). Some rare branches are sporting needles over 30 degrees, even up to a full halfcircle i.e. 180 degrees. Overall the needles are sparse and short if you compare with a healthy specimen which looks like A in your pictures. Also the branches have dropped a lot of needles i.e. parts of the branches have no needles in some locations - sometimes one needle, a pair of needles or a whole section. Regards, Jesper
After the large tulip poplar was removed in December (first picture), the spruce is visible behind it, here are some photos from today. There are finally cones, and the overall color of the new needles looks blue/silver-tinged. So I am guessing P. glauca is the right ID. My question now is about the lower branches that have very few needles… do you think they will survive under these improved light conditions?
Your spruce has improved significantly. I don't know, how long do you expect those lower branches to live, they will die eventually anyways. But for now it seems that that spruce got enough improvement in light conditions to push out shoots with needles that are characteristic for good light conditions. So the look of the tree should definitely improve even more over few upcoming years.
Yes, definitely White Spruce Picea glauca. And yes, it'll likely improve further with the extra light.
Thank you Sulev and Michael F, I hope that you are correct and that this tree does better. I will try to post a picture next year around this time, just to confirm. Thanks again!
@Nik I am amazed by the difference greenery makes — ie winter / summer I hope you show us a similar angle photo in a few weeks with your New England autumn foliage glory !
