Identification: Spruce ID

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by Nik, Nov 1, 2020.

  1. araven

    araven New Member

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    Also please give facts on why you think it is P.abies and/or P.glauca and not just opinions. I don't think the colour is great way of distinguishing them. Let us not confuse ppl by comparing with the Abies family since Picea abies looks nothing like an Abies.
     
  2. Sulev

    Sulev Active Member

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    This tree is obviously a volunteer, not planted by human.
    The shape of the crown suggest strongly towards moderate to strong light deficiency during several recent years.
    As far as I can see, there is not a single hint towards P. glauca.
     
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  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    The plant in question is definitely Picea abies.
     
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  4. araven

    araven New Member

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    The reason why I guessed P.glauca was that the needles weren't flat as in P.abies(its name is a hint, the Abies family has flat needles/leaves) together with the brownish nodes. I certainly do not disagree with you as your knowledge in the area clealy outmatches mine by miles. I would just want to know why it is P.abies, facts, facts, facts.

    Regards,
    Araven
     
  5. Sulev

    Sulev Active Member

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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  6. Sulev

    Sulev Active Member

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    This is a sample of needles of a Norway spruce from my yard:
    spruce.jpg
     
  7. araven

    araven New Member

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    Hey,
    The spruces(P.abies) I was looking at all had a near planar arrangement of needles(see your upper right corner pic), then again I was looking at young starving trees standing in shadow (of bigger P.abies in my case) like the one in question. My Abies comment was all wrong, I had A.koreana and A.alba seedlings in front of me when I wrote that, I should have known better especially since I have A.northmannia in the yard. Still you are attacking my Abies comment rather than telling us the differences between P.glauca and P.abies which I find is hard to id when P.glauca comes in so many varieties. But you clearly are knowledgable in the field so pls fill us in.

    Regards,
    Araven
     
  8. araven

    araven New Member

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    Thanks for the article by the way. Its message is specifically that P.abies needle cross-section parameters differs very much depending on light.... I.e. its hard to draw conclusions regarding needle cross-section parameters unless you know the irradiance direction and strength. A starving specimen in shadow would most likely only have few short needles with a planar arrangement in the direction of the most light, which is exactly what I saw. Your picture is of what looks like a thriving sapling with plenty of light.
     
  9. Sulev

    Sulev Active Member

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    Sorry, I am not a native English speaker, maybe that is the reason, why it is hard for me to understand, how you can possibly see a near planar arrangement of needles from the upper right image I provided. A and B are both the same shoot, only from different angle.
    I took a photo from the same spruce on my yard from the shade part also, but even there its needles are not with a near planar arrangement. The zone on the photo below is from much shadier part than the spruce of the initial posting was growing. It's actually from dying zone where needles almost can't sustain any longer.

    Spruce2.jpg
     
  10. araven

    araven New Member

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    No, I think I misunderstood the pictures you posted, the abcd pics show no sign of a planar arrangement. I will go out and get a branch and take a photo, I will also take a photo of my A.koreana saplings so you understand what I mean(might take a few days). A dying zone on an adult tree is not the same as a starving sapling/semi-adult, I think we can agree on that?

    Regards,
    Araven
     
  11. Sulev

    Sulev Active Member

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    Yes, we agree on that. I just did not happen to have any starving semi-adult Norway spruce handy. This spruce, BTW, is planted ca 40 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  12. araven

    araven New Member

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    Hey, it's -20C and half a m of snow currently so I am staying indoors(I come and go atm, I am not usually here in winter - it's my summer house). However I can describe what I saw, one side of all branches is fully planar, the other side is dominated by needles in a 20-30 degree angle(what I called semi-planar). Some rare branches are sporting needles over 30 degrees, even up to a full halfcircle i.e. 180 degrees. Overall the needles are sparse and short if you compare with a healthy specimen which looks like A in your pictures. Also the branches have dropped a lot of needles i.e. parts of the branches have no needles in some locations - sometimes one needle, a pair of needles or a whole section.

    Regards,
    Jesper
     

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