shutting down

Discussion in 'Maples' started by emery, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Although we got around 15mm (about an inch) of rain finally, it's too little too late. I've been watering as I can, but the trees are all showing signs of stress and suffering. It's too early for fall color, I'm not ready for the end of summer!!

    AP 'Sango kaku'
    A. buergerianum
    A. spicatum
    AJ 'Aconitifolium'
    A. negundo 'Sensation'
    A. pilosum
     

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  2. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Don't worry Emery,summer's not over yet,although now I'm on my break the weather would indicate otherwise :(
    Whilst it would appear some of your maples are shutting down,I've always assumed with red apparently being the default colour of sun stress,that it is often this we are seeing,especially if the fall colour(presumably without chlorophyl) is never red...am I right?..I hope so!
    My Sango Kaku also goes very pink this time of year,but it's not shutting down and will remain this way until November when the orange then yellow fall colours take over.Infact interior leaves are still fresh green.
    I hope summer continues for you and returns for me,though I'll be back at work when it does.
     
  3. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hello,

    Almost all my maples are potted, whic can be an advantage (you can move them to a better place when you feel they are stressed) and an inconvenient (when you can't or forget to water them).

    My 'Sango Kaku' is very autumnal too. It gets the sun from, say, 10 to 5. The leaves on the N-NW side are about OK.

    I have two Acer buergerianum in the ground, full sun: one is in pristine condition, but there are pots around so it's watered every day, the other one is water much less often, but I think that chlorosis might be another issue.

    The 'Beni Hagoromo is in full sun too, and I'm very surprised by the way it looks: it didn't keep the red shades so long in the previous yers, but looks perfectly healthy.

    A seiryu in full sun obviously suffered from the heat although it didn't show much stress until very recently. The leaves on the north side are OK.

    And my 'Emerald Lace' (sun from about 10 to 6) keeps surprisingly green.

    What is the impact of the different factors, I'd like to know for sure ;°)

    All the previous photos were taken a week ago. Since then, the temperatures have dropped, and we've had some very light but regular rain for 24 hrs. I took a picture of some of the trees mentioned before today. From top to bottom, left to right:

    Vitex agnus-castus, A. p. 'Beni Hagoromo'
    Wooden fence, 'Sango Kaku', 'Orange Dream'
    Ginkgo biloba from air-layer, A. p. 'Butterfly'
    Various trees, green garden chair (I removed the empty beer can before taking the picture under the drizzling rain ^^)
     

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  4. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    After some rain (not so long, and not so abundant actually), the sun is back again and the thermometer outside shows a max of 34° in a place that never sees the sun! But since it's round the corner of a wall that gets the afternoon sun when it's the hottest moment of the day, I suppose that the cement conducts some of the heat. Well at least 30 anyway, judging by the sweat on my forehead after ten minutes outside.

    In a week's time, the Shirasawanum 'Autumn Moon' which has now been in a 50% sunny spot gets nice autumn colours, but with almost no burned tips. The photo doesn't render the luminous hues it has when the sun is about to come down, my preferred moment of the day...

    Now that my kids are gone to the real world, I should sell my house which is too big, buy a smaller one, but with a bigger garden so I can have more maples! ;°D
     

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  5. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Great pictures as always Alain!

    Well Houzi you were right, after a decent amount of rain it looked worse than it was for the most part, many of the dead leaves have dropped and things are back to looking OK if somewhat shabby, but that's not unusual for this time of year.

    There are a few worrying exceptions, A. pseudoplatanus 'Miracle Rose', which has long been a difficult (sickly) plant, has lost all of its leaves and at least the top branches are dying back. This is really too bad as it's a gorgeous little tree which was finally making a good comeback. Sango kaku is all brown on the top, but actually looks quite distinguished for all of that. Hogyoku has lost leaves all along the west side, and looks quite the mess, but the branches themselves don't look problematic. Even very resistant maples, like all the hyrcanums in full sun, have lost maybe 1/4 of their leaves, although what's left in general doesn't look too bad.

    I won't post a pic of how awful 'Autumn Moon' looks, bleached practically white with brown edges!

    There's also a large amount of gray mould and I have never seen the maple tar spot this bad, many of the ornamental sycamores are in a terrible state. No real way to treat it, of course, and it's unsightly not life threatening.

    Still some maples like 'Pink Filigree' in full sun look absolutely fabulous, give them a bolly. ;) Go figure.

    -E
     
  6. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    emery...Hear what you are saying about the weather but up here in't north things are looking fantastic at the moment, think this year is going to be a "Premier Cru" year the trees are looking superb at present and if this is a sign of things to come they are going to look stunning this fall :)

    Few pics for you.


    1.Hogyoku, one of two starting to turn nicely

    2.Sharps pygmy, never seen this go red yet after years in the ground, lifted last year looking good!!

    3.Standard Baldsmith

    4.Lower end garden group nicely colouring up.

    5.Top end garden all showing good strong colours will get better :)

    6.Momiji gawa good deep red ,Butterfly (Houzi you are right about this fella,keep him small and he looks great) plus Coonara pygmy also changing.

    7.Ki hachijo moved from last year and no side effects, if anything it's grown better

    8.Peve Chameleon always pretty colours

    9.Momoiro Koyasan,this has kept going all summer just amazing colours every month,just keeps giving pleasure a true stunner!!

    10.Pink filligree,emery as you say when the sun gets on it wow,looks good in the shade to.

    11.Peaches and Cream , with out doubt the best tree of the year for me, stunning spring then summer colours then hopefully the lovely yellows will follow.

    12. emery is this what you mean by "Autumn crispy moon" again this was lovely during the summer but started going down a few weeks back, but if you look at the bottom it's still quite nice this is because the large palmatifidum on the left kept it protected, so this will be re potted and kept in a more shady area for next year.

    13.Amber ghost one of two, these are just superb can't wait for these to get larger over the years,will be buying a few more of these fellas.

    Been very busy over the past few weeks, some serious garden re structuring in the front, just have a new path to lay (Oh joy) and thats the front done.

    All my young grafts are planted out, every body who wanted re potting is now done and i have just finished planting all the spring bulbs for next year all in pots!! and if i see another daff bulb i will scream!!!

    Just a handful of large Acers to re position for next year, this will be done after the leaf drop and that will be me all done for the year.

    Can honestly say this is one of the best years for the maples,every one is the right colour this year and they are all behaving as they should do,plus i have only lost two plants this year!!!

    Hoping every one else had a good season up to press? the best is yet to come.
     

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  7. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    A very nice collection you have there.

    The change of colours throughout the seasons must be a delight!
     
  8. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Thanks Alaink When every thing finally comes together after years of planting and re potting trying different growing mediums etc, then watching your trees grow and realising you need to remove a few of them because there in the wrong spot either for colour matching with other trees or they just don't like where they are, it all becomes worth while when finally they all click together. But i suppose that's half the fun of growing them? trying to get everyone in sinc.

    The lousy summer weather has certainly helped this year,really kept them wet and they seemed to have thrived on this, certainly have not watered as much this season has previous ones gone by.

    Yours seem to be doing nicely as well,nice postings of pics.
     
  9. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hello,
    The Channel is a real frontier, it seems: even in Normandy (see what Emery posted), this year's was apparently the hottest, driest summer in decades. Where I live (about 300-350 km from where emery leaves I reckon), it's been the second hottest in over a century.

    I'm beginning to suspect a conspiracy from the governement, ahead of the 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_Nations_Climate_Change_Conference

    (JOKE!)
     
  10. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Our local TV station/weather news tonight stated that this July and August were officially the wetest in Yorkshire for over eight years (Well quelle suprise as you might say)

    Stating the obvious for those of us who live here!!! but the Acers love it.

    The past few days are really begining to feel Autumnal, very cool wind blowing at the moment.
     
  11. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Wish I could be so enthusiastic about the rain.The disasterous cat litter experiment has taken it's toll.The death list so far is quite high though a couple probably died of other causes..... Beni-Maiko,Taylor,Deshojo,Crimson Princess,Butterfly,Kinshi,Shishigashira,Red Filigree Lace,Phoenix, Amagi Shigure,Hino Tori Nishiki and Autumn Moon with a couple more probably not gonna make it.
    I've re-potted a few but the enthusiam's not really there yet as It'll be the 3rd year in a row having to do this.Disposing of about 300kg of the damn litter doesn't inspire me either ha ha.
    Anyway I really needed to downsize my collection so they are not going to be replaced.On a brighter note some of them had grafts taken from them before death and 3/4 thru the grafting worked out why my success rate has been so bad in summer...bum information ha ha.Re-grafted the failures and now have great success at last :)
    Actually up until mid July I thought it had been an excellent summer,the sunniest I've seen for years...though my 2weeks off were in the wettest part...typical!
    Your garden's a treat for the eyes Roebuck,a real credit to your work.I hope you're right about expecting a great autumn,I'm definately gonna make the effort to get to Westonbirt this year.
    Maybe you're right about the channel Alain though I've noticed in recent years they've started to blame the position of the airstream for our lousy weather....what do they blame for your heat?...we'll do a swap :)
     
  12. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Houzi..Sorry to learn that you have had quite a few trees that didn't make it this season always a wrench when they die ,i lost my Taylor last year after years of struggling with it, one i won't be replacing,the two lost this year were Hino tori and a Summer gold.

    Strange that we only live some 170 miles apart and yet we both seem to have a different weather system? Would have thought the southern part of the UK would always have the better climate than the north. As i said yesterday i can't remember a year where i seem to have done less watering? and just relied on what seems to have been the ever endless supply of rain,certainly kept the bugs down this year.

    Like yourself every year i keep saying that we will go to Westonbirt but never seem to get there for some reason, maybe one day!!

    One thing that i have found over the years with the maples is it doesn't seem to matter to a large extent what you grow them in or how you tend to look after them after planting/potting ie what you feed them spray them with etc etc,in my opinion it's all down to the positioning and light/shade that they need, give them this and they will be happy.

    I have dozens of plants which according to the" book" shouldn't be planted where i have them and they look stunning, last season i decided to move a few more which were struggling foliage and colour wise and the change this year has been remarkable,seeing good colours for the first time, better leaf growth and structure and the variagated ones are lasting so much longer thru the summer into Autumn and hopefully will progress with strong vivid fall colours.

    They certainly test your brain do JM when trying to work out what's going wrong,and how do i rectifie this? again this is the pleasure and joy of keeping them i think.

    Hoping you get a good fall show :) cheers Mark
     
  13. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Sorry I meant up until mid August we had a stunning spring and summer(forgot we're already in September now)Despite all the sunshine I actually had 2 maples which just didn't need watering,such is the potting mix.
    As I said losing some plants probably does me a favour.It'll give me a chance to move them around a bit instead of simply putting them in any vacant space I can find.Still have yet to put Masu Murasaki in decent sun...hoping it'll be brighter than the others as it's a green type with less sun....the true reds are too dark in my garden,we'll see.
    .....Mentioning our small distance apart,something I wasn't aware of....when watching the Glasgow games t'other year I thought...that's strange,they're running around in sunshine yet it's dark here.I didn't realise Scotland has significantly longer days than us in summer.Perhaps further North,though cooler,plants might grow more given the longer daylight hours.It was strange to think they've still got mid-summer sun sets whereas I could feel the nights closing in.
    Didn't know you also lost Hinotori Nishiki...sorry about that.Whilst we're all aware of Taylor's problems I wonder if this is also a weak cultivar.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  14. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    The Hinotori i lost in April when we had that really frosty two nights,just leafing out nicley then zap the frost had it.But the girls at Hippo very kindly gave me another one to replace it with,that's doing ok at present.

    Last time i was there we were talking about Taylor's because last year i noticed they were selling there beautiful show tree for £360 ooooh!! and someone bought it for the purpose of grafting etc another pro grower down south in Berkshire somewhere?,seems that this cultivar has quite a large following for young grafts,they told me that when they were at Chelsea they sold all of the Taylor grafts they had taken with them.

    They actually said to me that it's a nightmare to keep going, and ever since i had mine it was never 100% and just kept losing more branches every year till i ended up with one remaining branch with a few leaves on it.

    Couple more pics of two in the sun showing good colours, and two of a beautiful Emerald lace 20ltr i bought this morning at our local B&Q for £25 !!! great shape and form should be able to bring this on over the next few years,never usually look in their garden dept,but had to go through it to get to the buliding materials and saw this on a table with other plants/shrubs no price tag, but the assisstant told me everything on here was same price to clear ,just a few crispy leaves on top who cares next year this will look nice.

    Can't understand why they seem to sell trees for such low prices? in a garden centre you could easially double that, they must sell the vast majority of plants at a loss like the large supermarkets sell ie bread etc as loss leaders just to get you in to the store so you will buy other items with higher profit margins.
     

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  15. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Sorry Roebuk,I do remember you losing your HN now you mention it.I wouldn't be surprised if even at £25 retailers still make a profit,especially someone like B&Q...bearing in mind they should have similar stock in every outlet,that's a lot of maples to buy off the supplier.I've bought half a dozen from them at the end of summer at half price over the years.Thinking about it,unlike garden centres,B&Q wouldn't want bare trees hanging around all winter,they just keep whatever is in season with a view to sell immediately.Add to that the cost and hassle of returning them to storage I guess it makes sense....anyway it's good for us as we get a bargain.
    That 2nd photo is a super colour Roebuk,looks as bright as any fall display B-)
     
  16. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    In the space of five days since i last posted quite a few more of the trees are showing signs of shut down and starting to change very quickly now.

    Green globe (Viridis Olandese)
    Vitifolium leaf
    Palmatifidum

    Finally i wish i could have some of my red leafed Acer's with such an intense red colouring as this Azalea.
     

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  17. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Well you're now ahead of us in the Yorks! Beautiful as always. For me vitifolium can be quite variable, but then I do grow it in full sun. Aconitifolium in decent shade is much more reliable colour-wise.

    I've tried Taylor twice and killed both. Gave up, I think it is a very weak cultivar and others (here and elsewhere) have concurred. Gorgeous if you can get it to survive though, but I have too many to worry about for this kind of plant. Houzi I really feel for your losses and can only stress that we all lose maples, sometimes there's a really bad run that happens even to the most experienced growers/collectors. Quoting from Philippe de Spoelberch in the foreword to the "Illustrated Guide": "Maples, however, are temperamental trees, and three must be planted so that two may prosper. But, my, what a person won't do to be able to admire them, in all seasons... "

    It's true that the Channel is a barrier. My sister was just here from Brighton and commenting on how wet the summer had been. For my maples wet is a lot better than dry in the summer (so long as it doesn't ever stop!) but when the summer stays cold they don't get much growth on regardless. Wet with a little warmth and occasional sun they really go. I do mostly mound planting in the garden so new or not-very-established maples tend to dry out very easily.

    In pots I've found the substrate is really, really important. Not just the drainage, but how wet and sodden it stays. Last year I used a coir-heavy substrate that drained great but didn't dry in a week, everyone hated it. Most of those plants are repotted now. I've just ordered a big bag (m3) each of pouzzolane 3-6 and composted pine bark from AlainK's place, it turns out shipping it up hear is only marginally more expensive than going to get it, and of course I can have more sent by truck, hopefully at least 2 year's worth. I like perlite also in the mix, along with rough chopped coir (not too much) which retains water. But the pine bark/pouzzolane mix retains little enough water that there are less water mould issues.

    -E
     
  18. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    We certainly seem to be turning early now ,i can see a marked change nearly every single day now with the maples.

    Will be interesting to see the Maple displays at the Harrogate flower show this Friday. Will have a good chat with the girls from Hippo and see if they are having good early colour showing ,then i will go see them when they have their last nursery 'open' day in the begining of October.

    They are very strong advocates of the coir and perlite mediums, all their young grafts are started with this mix.

    Taylor lovely tree if you can keep it going!! but i don't think i will be trying this one again, the Marlo also springs to mind of a quite difficult cultivar to keep.

    Have always found the Vitifolium very reliable,but have noticed over the past two seasons it seems to drop it's leaves very early and tends to go from green to deep crimson and not show as much yellows/golds as usual,seem to think it might just be getting to much sun, another one of the reasons it's going to be lifted shortly and placed in a more sheltered area, see what next years colours are like?

    Have just put a few more pics up seeing it's such a lovely sunny day up't north,when the sun bounces of them they do look nice.

    Last pic Momoiro koya san this looks stunning at the moment,never seen this one look as good and to say that i moved it's shade tree away last year it's certainly handled the sun well with no leaf scorch, just a vast array of different shades of pinks, red /white varigated leaves and greens with pastel pink edgings very pretty then it will turn full red to finish very nice.
     

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  19. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ha! Absolutely pounding down here with tons of wind, up in the 80 kphs. Glad someone has decent weather. I put pots into shelter yesterday, thankfully.

    My Vitifolium is in full sun in a pretty dry spot. The idea is that it's supposed to become a "big tree" and I suppose it's around 12 ft. But because this property had essentially no trees (except 3 very old Tilias i.e. very dense shade) when we bought it, shade is not an option really. The old guy had cut down everything for firewood, including some old enormous cherries and oaks, I'm told...

    Grreat pics again, thanks! :)

    -E
     
  20. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    It's too dark now to take photos, but I'm amazed at how some of my trees have kept their leaves so long. I had a walk by a river today, a place which is really wonderful in all seasons, and I still could see green leaves on many trees. I didn't have my camera and my mobile phone is a very basic one so I didn't take any pictures. Even in the Loire river, the level of water is so low that I'm sure it can be crossed like a ford in a brook...

    Back to maples, here are a couple of photos I took last week (Nov. 22nd) :
    1/ Acer palmatum (plain species) in the ground, one side gets very little sun, only from say 9 to 10, the other ones gets the sun from about 2:30 until sunset. I'll take some more pictures tomorrow if the weather allows it.
    2/ Acer buergerianum, in the ground: it had a second flusf of growth after a long period of very dry weather this summer (and I didn't water it). The older leaves fell out quickly but the new shoots continued to develop and have stayed green despite two or three days slightly below zero (Celsius).
    3/ An Acer elegantulum in a pot behaved about the same: you can see it behind the Acer buergerianum, and there's a close-up taken in the morning sun.

    Crazy weather... Considering what the two biggest polluters in the world have announced to pledge, I doubt that the "COP21" in Paris will really help.

    But we're still standing and taking care of our trees.

    LibertyTreePlanting.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  21. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Alain all of my trees are bare now except for one Seka yatsabusa and a Murasaki kiyohime, every one else is shut down for another year. Interesting about your observation of the water level of the Loire that it's very low at the moment well in the UK we are in the opposite situation re wet weather, it never seems to stop raining at this present moment in time.

    This seems to have been one of the main topics of conversation through out the year gardening wise "When will we get some dry sunny weather" well we didn't really it just seemed to have kept keep on raining !! and i think that's why i have certainly seen the best ever year for the Acers with out doubt, the colours on the trees have been fantastic with good growth rates, excellent root structures and very little leaf scorch and poor insect numbers, all have combined for an amazing show this season.

    In this thread alone i have past commented on how less i seemed to have been watering the trees etc, the constent water/moisture levels have all been high this year so cutting my work/attention load down to one of the lowest for years.

    One good thing is that i finally moved the last of the trees for re-positioning early last week, just caught that one in time (phew). So every one is in their new places now all bedded down nice and safe for the new season ,also managed to get a few more trees out of their containers and into the ground think i have around 70% planted out now.

    All i can say is thank goodness i live near to the local council re-cycling depot, must have been there over a dozen times with bags of loose dirt clay etc for the new planting holes :)

    Back to the rainy weather on returning home from work this evening i had to physically stop the car on the road because the rain was so heavy and intense i couldn't see where i was going!!!! and had to wait a few minutes till the rain ceased, the wipers couldn't keep up with the pace of water on the windscreen, very scary and in over 30+ years of driving this was a first for me.

    Still home now warm coffee by my side writing this and guess what it's still bouncing it down outside, never mind xmas shopping tomorrow (bliss)
     
  22. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I'm amazed at how long some of my trees kept their leaves on, in particular the last two ones that are supposed to be less hardy than other species: A. elegantulum and A. cudatifolium.

    The photo of A. elegantulum was taken last week, it's the strongest of a batch I grew from seeds sown in 2013. It has just lost its last leaves yesterday - we had temps slightly below 0° and a couple of cm snow.

    The photo of A. caudatifolium was taken this morning: it's a seedling that was kindly sent to me by Emery, and as you can see the leaves are still green! I put it againt the wall of my house, and it gets no sun and is protected from the wind, but still, it's very surprising. Shoukld I worry?
     

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  23. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hey Alain,

    Well I'm worried about some of these caudatifoliums. Of the whole batch, I'd guess about a third are still holding their leaves. Of these, maybe 5 had some stem blackening from the early freeze. Now several more have blackened. I assume most of these will die. So I've moved quite a few of the batch inside where there's no risk of further freeze. The hope will be that as they gain some width I will be able to harden them off.

    Elegantum has proved pretty hardy for most, but the thing about seeds is depending on where they were collected will predict how hardy the offspring are likely to be. The ones I have currently, which now includes a very nice one from your good self, have so far proved hardy.

    -E
     
  24. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    So far, my caudatifolium is in prisine condition except for the leaves that begin to show some autumn coloring after a couple of colder mornings and some snow last Friday morning and this afternoon.

    But I hope this lack of abscission doesn't mean next year's buds are too weak.




     
  25. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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