Identification: Shujaku - Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by wcutler, May 5, 2007.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Last year I asked: "Isn't this an Akebono? This photo was taken in Stanley Park near the lagoon bridge on April 23. If it's really an Akebono, it must be the last one to bloom in the province." Now I know that there are other single white blossomed trees,and I'm posting it here just to get it out of the Akebono thread.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2008
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Akebono – billowy pink fading to white, single-looking semi-double blossoms, mid-

    Hard to believe the white one isn't still being sold up there. One shown looks too dark for 'Akebono'.
     
  3. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pinky-white

    If I were naming these things, this one would have got the name "Pink Shell", but it doesn't look at all the same to me as what Douglas showed as having got that name in his blog. Too bad. This lone tree near the lagoon bridge in Stanley Park looks like a pink Akebono but with big stars like the Somei-yoshino. It does have some staminodes. And it's blooming now, late season. The blossoms were too high up to get any more details.
     

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  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pinky-white

    Does the park have any planting records?
     
  5. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pinky-white

    It would be very helpful to see the size of the flowers, and close-ups of the calyx, inflorescence and leaves. Alas, if I wasn't leaving town, I'd drag a stepladder down to the park myself.
     
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pinky-white

    Here are a few more photos. The peduncles and pedicels in some cases seemed the length of Shirofugen's. The petals on the ground were about 2cm x 1.5cm. The two blossoms on the ground were too shrunken to get a good measurement. It generally seems to drop petals, not whole blossoms.
     

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  7. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    Douglas, I know you're not going to drag the stepladder down this year, but here are photos showing the size of the flowers and closeups of the calyx, though I think I could have done better on the calyx once I realized there was a broken branch. I thought I'd figured out this was Mikuruma-gaeshi after I realized that the broken branch had some flowers like the Mikuruma-gaeshi doubles, but then I read that a distinguishing feature of Mikuruma-gaeshi is the short pedicels and what I thought was remarkable about this tree was the long pedicels on a tree that has mostly single blossoms. Blossoms are about 4cm in diameter. Pedicels seem about the same length as that. This is looking very pink, isn't it; I'm going to change the title from pinky-white to pink.

    Photos are from April 30, 2009, so this tree has bloomed around the same time as last year (also a late year). For comparitive reference, the Shirotae nearby are not much past peak bloom (later than in the city) and the nearby Gyoiko or whatever it is has about 50% of its blossoms open.
    20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC02997.jpg 20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC03036.jpg 20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC03006.jpg
    20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC03011.jpg 20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC03012.jpg 20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC03033.jpg 20090430_RhodyBikePath_Pink_CutlerDSC03038.jpg
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    Maybe dig up and bring it along next time you are down here for music. With it planted in my garden, I should have plenty of time to study it and figure out what it is.
     
  9. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    And you'll have the required stepladder too.
     
  10. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    Yes: I've got pruning ladders.

    Looks familiar, but can't name it. Have you flipped through Kuitert or looked for pictures elsewhere?
     
  11. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    May 13, 2009
    Today I visited the tree with Wendy. It still has some pink flowers and some brown dead petals still stay on the branches.
    20090513_StanleyPark_Emarginata,whatzis&shirofugen,_Izaki 011.jpg 20090513_StanleyPark_Emarginata,whatzis&shirofugen,_Izaki 013.JPG 20090513_StanleyPark_Emarginata,whatzis&shirofugen,_Izaki 015.JPG

    When I saw this I remembered one unknown tree in my area (Wallace & W20th). I visited the tree rather too late (May 9) but it looked like Wendy’s tree a little.
    20090509_Wallas-20_Whatzis@16th&walls-Highb_Mikurumagaesh_Izaki 001.jpg 20090509_Wallas-20_Whatzis@16th&walls-Highb_Mikurumagaesh_Izaki 002.jpg

    I found this tree last year on my walk. It was too late to identify.When I first saw it, I thought it was Mikurumagaeshi. But flowers are too small and pedicels are too long. Also tree shape is not like Mikurumagaeshi.
    I was thinking to visit it in peak bloom this year but I mistook the location and I found it later than last year. This tree must be checked in peak bloom next year.
    20080504_Wallas&20th_Mikurumagaeshi_Izaki 001.JPG 20080504_Wallas&20th_Mikurumagaeshi_Izaki 002.JPG 20080504_Wallas&20th_Mikurumagaeshi_Izaki 007.JPG
    20080504_Wallas&20th_Mikurumagaeshi_Izaki 004.JPG 20090504_Wallas&20th_Mikurumagaeshi_Izaki 003.JPG

    On May 9,2009 Mikurumagaeshi nearby (on 16 between Highbury and Wallace) had already finished and had just a few flowers.
    20090509_Wallas-20_Whatzis@16th&walls-Highb_Mikurumagaesh_Izaki 008.jpg 20090509_Wallas-20_Whatzis@16th&walls-Highb_Mikurumagaesh_Izaki 010.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2009
  12. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    Here's an idea. I know I called this "single" but there are a lot of double blossoms in my photos this year. What about Prunus serrulata 'Shujaku', also called 'Suzaku'? The link is to a Google-translated Japanese site. I can't judge if the pedicels are thin, which Kuitert says is characteristic, but they are long and drooping, which I found so remarkable.

    Here's another photo of that cultivar, almost half-way down the page. That looks quite similar to me.
     
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: What cherry? Late blooming single pink, long stems

    Douglas Justice, in an email to me, wrote:
    I think you've found Shujaku. It looks right to me, especially the transition from the ovary to the pedicel (very slender).
    Mariko isn't so sure, as the Shujaku photo she has in a book shows more petals, but there were a few single blossoms and it does say "5-15 petals".

    I'm going with Shujaku in the thread title, and am adding semi-double to the description. If it's not right, it won't be the first mis-named cherry in Vancouver. For instance, the Parks Board has the one on 20th identified as Pink Perfection, which it definitely is not.
     
  14. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    Here's a photo of leaves and cherries from the Stanley Park tree.
     

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  15. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    'Arashiyama' is a possibility. Bristle-tipped marginal teeth, reddish bracts and bracteoles, much divided stipules, and a distinct propensity for producing fruits. The flower colour is described as bright pink in bud, opening to white with a pink edge (hmmm). No mention of darkening centre on older flowers. Any other suggestions?
     
  16. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    I caught this Stanley Park tree in time for bud photos.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  17. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    I tried to get some photos of the tree Mariko asked about in posting #11, at 20th and Wallace, as it's in bloom now, but my new camera is still a mystery. Some of the stems on this seem long, but others seem quite short. The Stanley Park tree had noticeably long stems and the blossoms draped so gracefully. There are a lot of photos of that one at the beginning of this thread. This doesn't seem like as lovely a tree. Douglas Justice was going to try to compare them, but I don't think he'd have been able to reach the branches on this one.
     

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  18. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    As it turns out, I did visit both trees the other day and I think they are the same cultivar. The more compact growth and heavier flowering on the Point Grey specimen probably reflects the fact that it is in full sun and drought-stressed. Pedicel/peduncle length is notoriously variable from year to year and seems to be related to the temperature at which the flowers develop and emerge. I suspect this site is cooler than the Stanley Park location.

    But is it 'Shujaku' or 'Arashiyama'?
     
  19. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    New ladder this year?
     
  20. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    I don't know what you're talking about. I just reached up and...
     
  21. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    Today (April 11, 2010), I went to Shinjuku Gyoen Park and saw Suzaku and Arashiyama. So I post those pictures. Also you can see pictures of 'Kono-hana-sakuyahime' (Suzaku in Japanese)

    Suzaku
    20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 119.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 120.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 122.jpg
    20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 127.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 125.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 062.jpg
    20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 176.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 177.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 179.jpg

    Arashiyama
    20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 013.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 016.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 015.jpg
    20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 164.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 169.jpg 20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 172.jpg

    Arashiyama blooms with reddish brown leaves. So I think 20th and Wallace tree might be Suzaku.

    Also I saw young Ariakes in Koganei Park on April 8, 2010. I post the pictures of them, too. some of the trees didn't have leaves when they started blooming but I didn't take pictures of them.(I didn't take pictures of them)
    Ariake
    20100408_KoganeiPark_.Izaki 182.jpg 20100408_KoganeiPark_.Izaki 183.jpg 20100408_KoganeiPark_.Izaki 184.jpg
    20100408_KoganeiPark_.Izaki 194.jpg 20100408_KoganeiPark_.Izaki 195.jpg 20100408_KoganeiPark_.Izaki 196.jpg

    Wendy, I'd like to see the pictures of Stanley Park tree in full bloom, too.
     
  22. Joseph Lin

    Joseph Lin Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Stanley Park-Shujaku

    I saw this rare cultivar 'Shujaku' near the maintainance gate of Staley Park Golf Course with Douglas Justice & Wendy Cutler on a rainy day, April 6 and alone on a sunny day, April 9. These flowers are shown here for your appreciation.
     

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  23. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    Okay, so now I'm convinced that the trees (Stanley Park and 20th & Wallace) are Shuzaku/Suzaku. But how should I spell it?

    Thank you Mariko! Keep up the good work.
     
  24. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    I’m sorry I didn’t aware that you were spelling the cultivar ‘Shuzaku’. As you know I’m very careless about spellings and pronunciations (not only in English but also in Japanese!) So I checked the pronunciation in Japanese dictionary and Cherry books. As a cherry we call it Suzaku in Japan. It came from the place name in Kyoto.
    But in Chinese character it consists of 2 Chinese characters like below.
    20100411_ShinjukuGyoenPark_.Izaki 060.jpg
    The first Chinese character pronounces ‘shu’ which means scarlet or bright red. The second one pronounces ‘jaku’ or ‘suzume’ (Chinese character very often have 2 ways to read) which means a sparrow. But as a place name we read it ‘Suzaku’ . I checked Japanese dictionary and found there were 2 ways to read those characters; ‘Suzaku’ and ‘Shujaku’. It came from a Chinese god who guard south.
    So I think Syuzaku is not good. Suzaku or Shujaku as scientific name would be good.

    Google didn’t translate the page of Suzaku on ‘Kono-hana-sakuyahime’. But it writes ‘Flowers have long pedicels and hang down. They are like a bevy of red sparrows.’
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2010
  25. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Shujaku? Late blooming single/semi-double pink, long stems

    I've copied in Joseph's photos from the West End neighbourhood, as we can use them here, though I see we've already decided to go with 'Shujaku'.

    Mariko, you've outdone yourself in this thread. Your postings have been so helpful - thanks for going on that field trip for us, and that last posting telling us about the name is just brilliant.

    I think we should stay with 'Shujaku', because it's what other people are using. Google doesn't bring up any cherry hits from "suzaku" but "shujaku" gets a lot of hits, including Kuitert's book and Keele University Arboretum.
     

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