I am new to this forum. I read the Shirofugen and Shogetsu thread but still cannot tell the difference. Can someone help me identify the type in the pictures? Thanks!
Are they all the same tree? I'll rule out Shogetsu because it doesn't go pink or start any pinker than so very pale. These are Shogetsu. Notice the long peduncles (the first stem) and pedicels (the stems attached to the blossoms), and the very fringed petal tips. But I'm not all that convinced about yours being Shirofugen. Shirofugen opens very white and the blossoms do go flourescent pink, particularly from the centre, as in your photos, but can do it from the outside, and the green phylloid pistils in the centre grow in some of the blossoms to look like little leaves. But they also hang on long peduncles and pedicels, and the leaves are bronze if they're not under a canopy, at least at the beginning. Maybe your trees' blossoms are on long stems and it just doesn't appear that way, and with all your sunshine, the blossoms occur much closer together, but it's not a Shirofugen look here. Here's a Vancouver Shirofugen.
Thanks for the information, really appreciated! Sorry that I did not make it clear on the pictures. The first two photos are from one tree, and the last 3 phones are from another tree.
'Pink Perfection' is an English introduction raised from seed of 'Shogetsu', thus the resemblance. Although it blooms heavily, its flowers are distinctive in appearance* and it has been on the market over here since about 1959-60 (or earlier) it remains uncommon. The Plant Locator - Western Region (2004, Black-Eyed Susans/Timber Press, Portland) does not list it; I may have seen it offered once or twice, at most. *'Pink Perfection' is a prudish name compared to the rich poetic names of other Japanese cherries, but it applies perfectly to the pink flowers of this cultivar. When only some of the flowers are out among the red buds, the pure pink blossom shows to utmost advantage. Among the old garden forms, only 'Daikoku' can match this perfect pink --Kuitert, Japanese Flowering Cherries (1999, Timber Press, Portland)
Well - to me they look very similar when they have the white blossoms. The time to catch them is before they open, when the Shirofugen leaves are (usually) bronze and the Shogetsu leaves are green. Or very late, when the Shirofugen trees are pink and the ground under the Shirofugens is strewn with very pink blossoms, and the ground under Shogetsu trees is thinly covered in white because most of blossoms are drying up on the tree and are only faintly pink or a bit pink in the centres. Ron B keeps saying that Shogetsu turn purple - I've only seen a hint of purple rather than crisp white in the overall Shogetsu tree colouring now. My problem is being in an area I don't frequent, whose climate I don't know, and coming across an isolated tree with white blossoms that I won't see again. My comparison isn't helping me with this tree, but then I didn't pull apart the blossoms when I was there. The green leaves with white flowers should make it Shogetsu, particularly since Shirofugens are quite pink by now, but the one shot particularly shows smooth leaf edges, which should rule that out. I've decided now that the climate wasn't as different as I'd thought and it's probably Shogetsu, never mind the leaf edges.
Here are some more comparisons, to support what I said in my last note about the differences at the end of blooming. Shogetsu - tree colour, ground and blossom colour range. The pink doesn't seem to get much deeper than this. These photos are from two different trees; under the first tree pictured, there are more whole blossoms than single petals on the ground, just as white as these petals. Shirofugen - tree colour, ground and blossom colour range.
I've been musing about the identification of these trees in their Neighbourhood blog, but that's not really the proper place to do that, so here they are again. These three sets of trees are all on the east side of the Bayshore Hotel. I think I can spot a Shirofugen anywhere, and I originally said that when I noticed these pinky-brown-coloured trees next to the white and green Shirotaes, but the leaves are almost green and the leaf edges are so frilly that I'm leaning toward thinking they're Shogetsu now and the brown impression was just from the bud scales. I have seen Shirofugens that opened with green leaves, but they were under a glass awning in a courtyard. The second and third set of trees here are getting extra heat from the building they're near, which could account for the green leaves, but that's not the case for the first set. The second and third set had blossoms before any of the known Shirofugens in the West End. First set - along the driveway. These have very few blossoms open on April 27, 2009. Second set - along the east wall south of the Starbucks, surrounding two Shirotae trees. These have just opened and have spectacular pompoms of blossoms, not very similar to the other Shogetsu trees I know, but there are areas of tiered layers. I only managed to notice on this set that they don't appear to me to be grafted. Are they glands both on the leaf edges and the leaf stems? Third set - two trees north of the Starbucks entrance. These were the first to open. They also have the pompoms of blossoms. The leaf colour is right between the bronze of Shirofugen and the green of Shogetsu. Here's my known Shirofugen in the West End, with blossoms just beginning to open and very flashy red bud scales. I'm going to figure this out myself a month from now, when the blossoms either do or do not have phylloid leaves growing from the centres (if yes, they're Shirofugens) and the blossoms and petals on the ground are still quite white or are Kanzan pink coloured (if deep pink, then Shirofugens).
I decided today that these are 'Shogetsu'. I took a couple of the corymbs to Douglas Justice who said he agreed. [Edited by wcutler 2012jun19]In spite of what I said in posting #14, the ones I took to Douglas probably really were the 'Shogetsu', as those ones are easy to reach.
It didn't take more than a week to figure out that they're definitely Shogetsu [edited 2012june19 by wcutler - I think I'm definitely wrong; see posting #14] - the first trees to bloom are dropping petals from blossoms still quite white. Only some blossoms are a very pale mauve, though the centres are red. But nothing like the colouring on the Shirofugen I've been using all along for comparison.
Just to finish the story on these Shogetsu trees at the Bayshore, here they are at the end of blooming, still quite white. Some have no obvious phylloid (leafy) pistils in the centres, but on many, those are extending to close to 2cm, and some have a new petal or two forming in the centre. I don't remember seeing that last year on the tree on Pendrell St, and I've seen it a lot more this year on the Pink Perfections. There's what looks to me like a vexillate filament in there too. The stem in the third photo shows the "indistinct transition from pedicel to calyx" that Kuitert mentions, but a lot of the flowers have a more obvious calyx.
I hate it when this happens - these supposed Bayshore 'Shogetsu' today have 'Shirofugen' June flowers. I've never seen 'Shogetsu' with June blossoms and those extended phylloid structures that 'Shirofugen' get. This group of 'Shirotae'/'Shirofugen', as I'm calling them now, is nearest the entrance road. These are on the side of the building, to the south of the Starbucks. It doesn't really matter what that one on the left (last photo in this group) was. These to the right as you enter the Starbucks I still think are 'Shogetsu'. They don't have any flowers. [Edited by wcutler 2013apr13]If I meant immediately to the right, they didn't have flowers because they were 'Shirotae' and had finished blooming long before.
I found some trees after bloom with these phylloids (leafy) pistils in the centres. I decided they were Pink perfection?!?
Nadia, do you mean at the Bayshore? There are no 'Pink Perfection' at the Bayshore. 'Pink Perfection' do that double-story thing, with sepals and a new little flower that's very deep pink in the centre, sort-of like what I was showing in the posting you're replying to, but these were definitely white flowers, not pink.
No, not at the Bayshore, in my area, just tried to guess what it could be and decided that PP. I think in your case your guess is right, Shirofugen
Re: Shirofugen or Shogetsu at Brewers Park I cannot resist to take time to document these cherry flowers at Brewers Park at West side of Victoria Drive at East 25 Ave. There are two cherry trees with around 20 flowers this afternoon.
Well, they're not 'Shirofugen', which at this stage would look very bronze. These look quite green. The ones north of the 'Shirotae' to the right of the Starbucks entrance are also looking very much like 'Shogetsu' at this stage. Anyone who disagrees, speak up now.
I still agree with my last determination that the late blooming trees at the Bayshore are 'Shogetsu'. Today, the ones near the entrance drive have lost many of their flowers, but none of the flowers have turned pink the way 'Shiro-fugen' are now in this neighbourhood.
