Scratching the Itch

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Kaitain4, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Kent England
    Me too...with my record..be foolish not to ha.
    What are those slim little bags you use?...never seen them around,look much better than the food bags I use.
     
  2. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Those are some specialty bags I got from a supplier. I think they're 2" x 8". Much better suited to slip over a freshly grafted scion. I'm sure you could find something similar on your side of the pond.
     
  3. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Kent England
    3'' seems to be the nearest here but good enough for next time..cheers
     
  4. rwinktown

    rwinktown Active Member

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    Today i tried my hand at a few grafts. I am a rookie but i hope a few turn out!
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    rwink,

    You MUST cover the grafts with some sort of plastic bag or they will dry out. Only commercial growers with special greenhouse misting systems that keep humidity near 100% can get away with leaving the graft unions uncovered. You can use sandwich bags - just slit them a little on one side and slip over the scion and graft union and secure with a twist-tie, being sure the entire wounded area is covered.
     
  6. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Also, I would cut off the understock to about 6" higher than the graft.
     
  7. rwinktown

    rwinktown Active Member

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    hey kaitain thanks for the reply, i was originally going to cover them but received conflicting information from the local nursery. they are only a day old should i cut the rootstock today?
     
  8. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Yes, I would take care of it as soon as possible.
     
  9. rwinktown

    rwinktown Active Member

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    thanks for the info again! got the grafts covered and rootstock trimmed. ill post some picks if your interested later!
     
  10. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Here are some pics of the family room now overflowing with grafts!! I've started my 'tenting' technique on the ones that have really started sprouting out. Gives them room to grow and leaf out while still in a very high humidity (90+ percent)environment. I find high humidity to be essential for successful grafting and after-care. It takes about 2 to 3 months for the graft to heal enough and be vigorous enough to endure a lower humidity environment.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. kbguess

    kbguess Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    After an abysmal summer grafting season last year, I decided to try my hand at winter grafting since I was already doing some conifers.

    I find that I am not that great at cutting scion, so I am using a "guillotine" type cut with a razor.
    scion_razor.jpg

    I am getting nice clean cuts this way. I use a pair of buds to guide the cut.
    cut scion.jpg

    I ordered 55 gallon clear bags through Amazon and use string from the floor joists to hold the bag up.

    bagged.jpg
     
  12. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Pretty cool Keith!

    I use a razor too, but I'm using once that's like a carpet knife with a handle and replaceable blades.
     
  13. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Kent England
    Well,3weeks since starting,there's a lot of action now.Found my first failure(there will be more)a very thin 'Marlo' scion.Regrafted with another extremely thin one ha..we'll see.
    K4,you know that damned fungus? does it attack leaves once opened? I've only seen it on unopened buds,dead wood and rootstock wounds.Only I want to start de-baggiing and grow them on in a plastic mini greenhouse.The humidity will be high enough but obviously a perfect breeding ground for the fungus.
     
  14. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    I don't think the sooty fungus that you see on the stems gets on the leaves, but a more fuzzy kind of mold/fungus does. That's why I switch to 'tenting' when my grafts leaf out. As soon as the leaves start to unfurl I create the tent (see previous grafting discussions). This creates a high humidity environment but allows for more air circulation than the narrow bags since it is open at the bottom. Plus it allow room for the leaves to develop. Here's the trick - I can raise and lower the humidity in the tent by simply raising the tent bag higher or lower. I use cheap bags made for storing bread that come with twist-ties, and put one over the 3 bamboo skewers to form the tent. Then I gather the excess of the bag and use a twist-tie to secure it to one of the bamboo skewers. To raise or lower the tent I can just slide the twist-tie up or down the skewer.

    If I do get some fungus going in a tent, I take the plant out, spray it with fungicide (something like Safer - non-toxic), let it dry for a mew minutes, then place it back in the tent. I've had pretty good success controlling fungus outbreaks this way. I really don't want to use strong fungicides since these plants are in my house where I'm breathing the same air!

    If you do have access to a greenhouse I've heard that a lot of growers do a generalized fungal spray on all the plants, just so they don't have to deal with it. In there you could use something more powerful I suppose.
     
  15. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Oh, and congratulations on your sucesses! That's wonderful! Do post some pictures when you can.
     
  16. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Kent England
    Ah thanks for the encouragement K4...it's looking better than last year(my rootstocks were awake this time) but whatever success I have I owe to you.
    I guess bigger bags do have one advantage,you can let the graft grow longer before removal.However the big drawback is when tightly packed together in a tray,it's very hard to stop the buds coming into contact with the bag...usually ruins them.
    Not sure I've seen the sooty fungus you speak of,unless it's what turns the dead stuff black?The wooly fungus is my main concern.Was trying to remember what I used last year as I didn't have the mini greenhouse and I know I didn't use your skewer method.Then I found them again today(my memory!)I think they're florists bouquet bags,conical in shape and stand up on their own(see pic.)....being perforated all over they don't condensate up and fungus wasn't an issue.I went from the original bags,to these,then nothing...but I'll keep the skewer idea in mind incase they need longer weaning off the moisture.
    Well for the first time ever I just bought online....1/2 dozen 1st year grafts.I blame you K4,Maf and Amazing M completely.When I saw your pics.of Satsuki Beni I had to get one,and Maf's pics.of Beni Tsukasa thru the seasons...lovely...and of course Amazing's amazing Mikawa Yatsubusas.I took a cheeky(little) graft off each and am so pleased that the Mikawa is leafing out,as the original plant is only 4'' tall :( so no more photos please guys OK? :)
    Maybe later in the year you may like to share some pics. of all your grafts K4....you must have many many hundreds now...must be quite a sight!
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Houzi,

    I am both thrilled and humbled at the prospect that I have helped create another Maple Addict, and I accept full responsibility. If you become the next Vertrees, all I ask is that you name a maple after me!! LOL!

    I like those perforated bags - will have to search for those myself, or perhaps devise a way to perforate my cheap bread bags.

    And yes, the maple grafts are quite a sight indeed. Outside I have about 500 of them from the two previous years in flats and pots on the patio, and inside (in the Studio and in the family room) I have 350 new grafts, with more to go. Not sure when I'll stop. I've been cutting scion wood like crazy before the weather turns too warm, and now I've filled up 3 whole drawers in my fridge with scions! I have no idea what I'll do with them all - it's a little ridiculous, to be sure. I've started doing double grafts just to use more of them up.
     
  18. kbguess

    kbguess Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    K4

    Sounds like addiction. I told myself i was done for the season and then brought in another 25 maple rootstock and 30 or so conifer rootstock yesterday and all day I have been disappointed that I don't have anything ready to work on.

    I don't recall if you are into conifers, but if you are ever interested in trading maple grafts for conifers, let me know
     
  19. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Kent England
    An Addict?..Moi?...talk about the pot calling the kettle.... ha ha.Well I have the opposite problem to you,always scratching around for scions.My ''addiction'' is limited by my small garden.Infact I graft about 10seconds after cutting the scion from the plants,a mere few paces away.I often have to resort to more mature scions,sometimes they zoom off from a bud,sometimes they leaf out but don't grow,and I had two last year that took 10weeks to take,but I didn't give up on them.
    I know it's not your thing K4,but if you end up stuck with all those scions,you could try sticking them in trays of damp compost as an experiment with cuttings...saves throwing them away.I've just got a gut feeling that this is a good time to do them if anyone wants to try,purely because I had just a few succeed in what should have been too cold an environment last year,and simply stuck in old pots of compost I found in the garden with a bag over them.It was my intention to experiment this year,but the choice of cuttings left after grafting is pathetic.
    I'm sure your grafts are a spectacular sight all together in spring K4....but I sure don't envy you when it's time to pot up Lol.
     
  20. kbguess

    kbguess Active Member 10 Years

    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Iowa City, IA
    First signs of success. K4 thanks for the tutorial, I followed it pretty closely

    shirasawanum 'Jordan'
    83ea3dba.jpg
     
  21. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Keith,

    Congratulations! Looks great. Soon you will see the first leaves unfurl and that is a very exciting event.

    You have about 4-6 weeks from this stage to where the plants are ready to survive outside a controlled environment. A lot can happen in that time period, so just be mindful and watch for signs of fungus and even insects. I had an outbreak of aphids on one graft already (the eggs overwintered on the bark I guess). Watering becomes important now. Slowly ramp it up as the plant sprouts. I've killed a lot of grafts at this stage from over-watering.

    Anyway, glad you could have some success! It will get in your blood... :)
     
  22. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Took the first graft out of the tent today. Took about 7 weeks from the graft date til today. I think 2 months is about average, although I have a few grafts that are 6 weeks old that are just starting to sprout, so that's not a hard and fast rule. I've had some grafts "take" in 10 days an others take as long as 6 weeks. Seems to be no way to predict it, other than I think the understock has a lot to do with it. The very vigorous understock seems to produce quicker results.

    Anyway, the house is starting to fill up with sprouted grafts, which gives me a thrill every time I see it. Here are a few pics from 'Grafter's Paradise'. LOL! First pic is the plant I took off the tent today, and the honor went to A.p. 'Dave Verkade'.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. rwinktown

    rwinktown Active Member

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Seattle
    Well its hard to tell from the pics but i can see at least a few seem to be happy!! (next time i am going to have to use clear bags so i can see what is happening better!) Thanks kaitain4 for the help.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Dickson, TN
    Oh yea! Lookin' good...
     
  25. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Kent England
    Rwinktown,don't forget to rub off those rootstock sprouts as in 1st pic...looking good :)
     

Share This Page