Scratching the Itch

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Kaitain4, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Today I brought the first batch of understock inside to warm them up for grafting. :) Such a lovely sight to see my den filling up with trees!!
     
  2. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Here's a pic. I'm using 1/4" understock this time, as I think it does better than 3/8". These came from Heritage.
     

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  3. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Ah it's that time already K4.I must admit I followed your timing to the letter last year,but I think was a little too early for me.So this year am going to leave it a week or two later,a bit nearer the wake up time for my maples.
    It's funny,this time I'm trying smaller rootstock too as most of my scions are small.I had a bit of trouble lining up the 1/4'' plus rootstock last year with small scions,it's difficult to make the cut shallow enough,but as you say it is nice and firm to work with.
    I'm also going to experiment with a slightly different cut this year in an attempt to compensate my increasingly poor eyesight.I'll be starting the cut on rootstock very slightly too shallow then taking it deeper as it goes down instead of a parallel depth,ending the cut very slightly too deep(wide)My thinking is that somewhere in the middle the two cambiums should line up on either side of the scion instead of struggling to line up one side only.I'll still be using the 8point method too,just seeing what's easiest for me.I still haven't managed to achieve the great success rate you have K4......good luck,look forward to seeing your results again.
     
  4. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Good luck to you as well. Hope your experiments are successful, but its fun no matter what the outcome!
     
  5. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    Hi K4,

    How much humidity can you get in your studio during the warm-up period? My humidity level is bounces between 19% and 28%. My average room temp is right around 66-67. Also can you picture the stage your whips buds are at when you cut the top to bleed out? I am guessing this is about 2 weeks in for the first batch from your other posts.

    Thanks!!
     
  6. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I try to get the humidy up to 40-50%, and have bought a large humidifier to help out.

    The understock is usually 2-3 weeks warming up, and the buds have not pushed. Its more important to look at the roots than the buds. Pull one from its pot and you should see new, white feeder roots sprouting. When I see this, it is time to cut the tops. I cut one or two and see if they start bleeding. If they do, then in 3-4 days I will start grafting. If they don't bleed, then they aren't ready and I try again in a few days. The pots should also be fairly dry when you start grafting. I try to keep everything just barely moist = almost dry until the grafts have taken and have really pushed out. Most of my grafting failures are from drowned-out graft unions.
     
  7. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    The grafting has begun... I love this part! :)
     

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  8. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    Re: Scratching the Itch - No bleeding

    Hi K4,

    I cut some of the tops of my stock this weekend. I have new white root growth but literally no bleeding. Think I need to wait a few days and cut again or good to graft now?

    Thanks!!
     
  9. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I had the same thing this time white roots, but no bleeding. I waited until they had been inside almost a month and then I went ahead and started the grafting. I have never had them not bleed before.

    How long have yours been inside?
     
  10. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    Mine have been inside for almost 3 weeks. Will be 3 weeks this coming Tuesday. My daytime temps are about 70 and night time around 63-65 degrees. My humidity is on average about 40%. When I brought them in they had been rained on so the soil was nice and wet. Now the soil is nearly dry.

    I think I will cut again on Monday and if they are still dry I will go ahead and start my grafting.


    Regards,

    Stephen
     
  11. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    Hello K4,

    So I am getting my grafts done. Making good progress with no trips the the emergency room.

    I am also getting my greenhouse\coldframe built to store my grafts in as well. How low can the temps go without putting things in danger? I believe I can keep the temps up in the 50's at night and certainly below 80 during the day. Is this a safe range?



    Stephen
     

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  12. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I would definitely not let them go below 50 degrees. I also try not to let them get too warm. You want the graft union to heal before too much sap gets flowing.
     
  13. kaydye

    kaydye Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have a question. The other day when I was out looking at things, I found that something had eaten the entire base (roots, everything) of my tsuma gaki. It was lying flat on the ground with a giant hole where the base had been. I hadn't planned on trying any grafting again (I only had one successful one), but the branches on tg looked fresh and healthy. So, I brought in a couple seedlings I had and decided I would warm them up slowly and in a month take the scions I cut off tg and try it. Do you think I have a chance? I don't know how long tg had been lying on the ground.
    Kay
     
  14. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    Kay,

    If the branches look fresh then would collect the scion and get them in the refrigerator wraped in damp paper towels. You can graft them up in a few weeks.

    Stephen
     
  15. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Your plant was probably attackedby voles. Nasty, stealthy little root-eaters. They have destroyed several of my maples.
     
  16. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    K4,I didn't want to comment as you're much more experienced as myself.Just wish you to keep an eye on your grafts as I'm sure most of the non-bleeders I had last year failed.It seems from your posts(maybe I'm wrong) if accurately dated that you've only had them inside for two weeks prior to grafting,possibly why not bleeding?Also noticed this year that the more mature(bigger) rootstocks are bleeding whereas the smaller ones are holding back.Just in-case, I'm waiting until they all bleed.....hope there's no need to worry,good luck.
     
  17. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks for the concern, Houzi.

    We have had an extremely mild winter here. Temps through most of Dec. and Jan were in the 50s or 60s with only a few frosts in that time frame. Plus the understock was on a concrete patio. So it had been warming up anyway, even though it wasn't in the house.

    I have understock that has been in the house 3 weeks and is now sprouting, and when I cut them they still don't bleed. Not sure what the deal is. However, some of my first grafts are now pushing, so I'm thinking I will be OK. Still, this has been quite odd compared to previous years.
     
  18. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    K4,

    None of my whips bled. I got them from Heritage. I wonder if it is the way they were stored prior to us getting them.

    I am dealing with fungal attacks now. I had sprayed the insides of my bags with mixed up Bayer fungicide. Not real sure how the commercial grafters deal with some of these types of issues. I wish I had more to study and read.

    Regards,

    Stephen
     
  19. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes, mine came from Heritage too, so must be something different they did.

    I think commerecial growers don't use bags - they use high-humidity greenhouses with misting systems and put the fungicide in the misters.

    Have you tried tenting (see example in my grafting posts)? That's my solution - lets more air circulate but keeps the humidity high. Not perfect, but it works.
     
  20. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    This is what I've been waiting for... :)
     

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  21. rwinktown

    rwinktown Active Member

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    looks great!!!!
     
  22. SFyffe

    SFyffe Active Member

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    K4,

    I can tell that my grafts are just about to the point of breaking buds. If we make to this point are we half way out of the woods as far as a successful graft goes? My whips are already breaking and some are leafing out.

    Regards,

    Stephen
     
  23. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Not really. It's a good sign, but not a guarantee that things will work out. Once the grafts leaf out the tricky part really starts. You have to give the plant enough water to keep it alive but not so much that the graft will bleed. I lose more grafts in this stage than any other.

    If your whips have sprouts don't worry. That's normal. Just rub them off with your fingers.
     
  24. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    Well K4,impatience got the better of me,like you and Stephen the small rootstocks wouldn't bleed.After seeing how yours have taken off thought must be ok to go ahead as I'm also seeing sprouting.It's strange but I've never been able to spot any rootgrowth when grafting.Last winter 2/3rds didn't bleed,no rootgrowth,and thinking about it,no sprouting...I think it's fair to say they hadn't woken up yet ha....I had trouble keeping the place warm enough.
    This year I've got some heating so looking better.The new method I described is a lot more fiddly than I assumed,calls for some very accurate knife-work....no good if doing the numbers you are K4.I think if they take it'll make a neat job but am a little concerned of the inherent thinness of the flap....we'll see.
    Wish you and Stephen both success...I don't really mind when some fail....means I get to do a bit more grafting..it's fun!
     
  25. Kaitain4

    Kaitain4 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hope things work out, Houzi

    One thing I do is to graft a little high. I allow at least enough space below the graft that I could do another graft if I had to. Then, if the graft fails, I regraft onto the same understock below the failed graft. A lot of these re-grafts take, which is always nice not to lose the whole thing.
     

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