Safer's Insecticidal Soap, Trounce, and End-All

Discussion in 'HortForum' started by Junglekeeper, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Contributor 10 Years

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    What is your experience with Safer's Trounce and/or End-All? If you've also used insecticidal soap before, what is their relative effectiveness?

    Trounce and End-All have extra ingredients which I assume make them increasing more effective. End-All is said to be effective against all stages from eggs to adults. Is this true in actual use? Does the extra ingredient(s) make the product less compatible for use with some plants?
    Insecticidal Soap: Potassium salts of fatty acids 2%
    Trounce: Potassium salts of fatty acids 1%, pyrethrins 0.01%
    End-All: Potassium salts of fatty acids 1%, pyrethrins 0.01%, clarified hydrophobic extract of neem oil 0.9% Note: Neem oil does not appear on the product's label. The information on the website appears to be incorrect.
    I need a product to control primarily spider mites, scale, and thrips on my indoor plants and have been using insecticidal soap.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  2. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years

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    I've used insecticidal soap on my Cacao and it kills leaves rather than little green bugs. Going to find some neem oil.
     
  3. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Contributor 10 Years

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    That's surprising since insecticidal soap is safe for most plants. Is it possible that the plant was immediately exposed to strong sunlight after its application, thereby triggering phototoxicity?
     
  4. pinenut

    pinenut Active Member 10 Years

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    Yes. Quite possible. I had it outside in our unusually warm weather. I've since brought it back inside, but its still in a bright window.
     
  5. GCSolutions

    GCSolutions New Member

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    For my information, please post the link to the list of ingredients for End All. I have on and off, for awhile been looking for updated MSDS on Safer's products. Five years ago, all products with neem were removed from retailer's shelves. At that time, Einstein Oil was being written off at GW, so I scooped a stockpile.
    The one thing, I forgot to mention in the other thread is to give the plant a shower with kitchen sprayer, if possible. Not just only as part of ridding insects, but as a preventative. Other than that, quarantine, outside if possible, let mother nature have a crack at what remains after the shower. Neem might play a role. Unfortunately, neem removes the beautiful light chalkiness on succulents. It will kill plants that have a fuzziness to them. So, I will use it on the chalky plants like, Senecio serpens or some of the Echeveria, if I that is what it comes to. As you mentioned, Junglekeeper, keeping them out of the sun afterwards. I mainly use neem as systemic, so I can treat all the plants. Even so, neem can be tricky to use, if not dilute properly. If none of that works, their is a garbage bin with their name on it.

    I haven't used anything else in a long time. As for the Safer's products. I have found insecticidal soap for most pest, unhelpful if not used in combination with something else. I assume the manufactures have found pyrethrins works better with the insecticidal soap.

    Please post that link, all I can find is the pic.with this post and an old MSDS. As you mentioned they have other ingredients. The MSDS tells the whole story.

    EndAll.jpg
    Thanks
     
  6. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Contributor 10 Years

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    The End-All link can be found in the first post in this thread. I was not aware that neem was banned at one time. End-All without neem would be no different from Trounce. I remember seeing neem listed on the label but I'll make a note to check again the next time I'm in a store.

    I too like to give my plants a wash in the shower once in awhile, not so much to remove bugs but to rinse off the dust that collects over time. I'm quite vigilant when it comes to monitoring for bugs so any infestation is usually caught in its early stages. Perhaps that's why I've had success with insecticidal soap. Nevertheless I wouldn't mind using a product that requires fewer number of applications.
     
  7. Junglekeeper

    Junglekeeper Contributor 10 Years

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    The information on the company's website for End-All appears to be incorrect as there's is no mention of neem oil on the product label. This is corroborated by the MSDS (for the concentrate) that I found: 31-6040CAN Safer's End All II Concentrate (4L) - Plant Products (.pdf).
    Code:
    Pyrethrins                        <0.3%
    Potassium Salts of Fatty Acids    <20.0%
    Ethyl alcohol                     <15.0%
    Secondary alcohol                 <15.0%
    Methyl alcohol                    <1.0%
    Dilute mineral acid               <5.0%
    

    Here's Trounce's MSDS (for the concentrate) for comparative purposes: 21-2153CAN Safer's Trounce Insecticide Concentrate 120L - UAP.ca (.pdf).
    Code:
    Pyrethrins                        <0.3%
    Potassium Salts of Fatty Acids    <20.0%
    Ethanol Solution                  <15.0%
    
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018

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