Red Linearilobum with yellow fall colors

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Gomero, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have a friend with a red linearilobum (labelled 'Red Pygmy') which turns yellow in the fall. To me 'Red Pygmy' has bright red colors in the fall, no yellows.
    Any hints on what that cultivar could be?

    Gomero
     
  2. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    My 'Red Pygmy' gets mostly shade and it turns yellow in fall (if sun exposure has anything to do with it). The one I picked up for my parents gets all day sun and late afternoon shade, and the fall color is red. I would conclude that sun exposure plays a role, but the two trees are from different growers. So I can't be certain.
     
  3. 17 Maples

    17 Maples Active Member

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    think you are both correct in your findings plus what is your Autumn weather like, how many frosts or is it or has it gotten down in the low 30's-40'sF range, that will close those sugary cells faster than anything. I have a Sumingashi almost bonzai'd in my yard about 6 feet tall now that turns a fiery yeloow/orange every Autumn.
     
  4. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    I would say mine is more orange than red or yellow in fall.
     
  5. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I am travelling so I cannot check in the books, what do they say on the Fall colors of Red Pygmy?

    Gomero
     
  6. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Vertrees (II) and Vertrees/Gregory (IV) do not say. Yano says orange to yellow.

    I don't have the Van Gelderen books to hand at present, but they would be the most likely to know for sure as I think it may have originally been an Esveld introduction?
     
  7. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    All the research I've done into Red Pygmy has pointed to yellow & oranage for fall colors. The pictures I've found online back this. I think there may be a few nice ones showing the fall colors on this site in the maple gallary and they do not look red but closer to a yellow with red highlights with an overall orange look. This is one of the top reasons I have this tree on my list, all my red linearilobums turn red in fall but the Red Pygmy is known for having a different fall color.

    I'm not sure if it's ok to post links so let me know and I'll take it down if so but this website has a ton of usefull information on a lot of different cultivars as far as colors for spring/sumer/fall. It has Gold listed on fall colors for Red Pygmy.

    http://www.davidsansjapanesemaples.com/shop/product/red_pygmy
     
  8. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Here is a picture of my Red Pygmy before the 70mph winds from Sandy left it bare.
     

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  9. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    My 'Red Pygmy' has already lost its leaves this year so could not double check the colour, but I went through my photos from previous years and found a couple. The tones I get seems to be a mix of yellow and red giving an overall orange effect, similar to what rufretic described a couple of posts above. I have never seen a clear red like Gomero describes or the clear yellow that JT1 showed.

    Pictures are from different years and show the colour at different stages of development, but the yellow/orange component remains throughout.

    RedPygmyFall0.jpg RedPygmyFall1.jpg RedPygmyFall2.jpg
     
  10. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Maf, thanks for providing the pictures. The middle picture is closer to my parents Red Pygmy fall color.

    My parent's tree starts red and then picks up more orange as it gets closer to peak color. Last year the mature growth went from red to orange, while the leaves on that seasons new growth stayed red at peak. This year the tree went red and the leaves faded to brown as they dropped very quickly, possibly due to the long and harsh growing season followed by a wet fall.
     
  11. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Thanks guys. I am still travelling and cannot access my doc. Who selected the cultivar 'Red Pygmy'?

    Gomero
     
  12. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    OK, I am back home. Checking the 'Maples for Gardens' book from the Van Gelderen's:
    We can assume that the guys who introduced it know best its characteristics. My plant, bought at Esveld's, fits the description above.

    Gomero
     
  13. maf

    maf Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Interesting that they say reddish rather than red. Covers quite a broad spectrum, which would include the plant I pictured also.

    (from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reddish?s=t)
     
  14. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    "reddish" is not a very detailed description in my opinion and leaves it open from yellow with some red to solid red. Which maybe that is exactly why they use that term because depending on sun exposure it could be any color from yellow to red and all the blends in between.

    Just for another refference, J.D Vertrees fourth edition has a picture of "Red Pygmy" on page 22 that looks more like yellow or a light orange. The caption for the picture says "a bright orange in late fall."
     
  15. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    ;-))

    Gomero
     
  16. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    rufretic, my thoughts exactly! Both of mine are in the shade and they are yellow. My parents gets more sun and its orange to red, depending on duration into fall and the maturity of the growth. Then the weather environment plays a role too (precipitation and temperature), but based on our normal or average fall weather it all seems to comes down to sun exposure. (photo taken this morning)
     

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  17. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    The color of yours in that picture looks very close to the color in the picture on page 22 in J.D Vertrees fourth edition that I mentioned. I will have to plant mine in a good amount of shade once I have one because that is the color I would like to get out of it, nice and different from my other red linearilobums.

    Gomero, does yours get a lot of sun? And your friends a lot of shade? If yes, I think we can assume sun exposure is the key to what color to expect in the fall. I saw the same results with Koto no ito, full sun-red, part sun-orange and full shade-yellow. I might have to get two Red Pygmys so I can play with sun exposure a little, it's pretty cool!
     
  18. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Most amoenums show little variability in fall color. In my garden they basically color the same independently of the sun exposure. My 'Osakazuki', the amoenum everybody knows, is fairly shaded and consistently shows the beautiful red year after year. 'Red Pygmy' is also an amoenum, the tree I have labeled with that name is also pretty much shaded by big oaks but it is solid red, no yellows, no oranges, as shown in the pic from last year (this year it has not changed yet).
    The palmatums, on the other hand, do show an enormous variability in Fall colors from one year to the other and as a function of sun exposure. Place a 'Sango kaku' in shade and it will be a beautiful pale yellow. Place the same tree in sun and it will display golden yellows, deep oranges and reddish hues in the outer leaves.

    Gomero
     

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  19. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    I always thought 'Red Pygmy' to be part of the Linearilobum group and that Linearilobum and amoenums are two separate groups. But the point you make about amoenums being consistent with fall color in a variety of lighting seems to be true in my experience too. But I do see changes in fall color with Linearilobum that seems to be dependent upon sun exposure. As rufretic first mentioned, my 'Koto no ito' was in full sun the first season and it was red in fall and the last few years it gets afternoon shade and it is a beautiful florescent orange in fall.
     
  20. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    For the North American and European botanists Acer amoenum is a subspecies of Acer palmatum, thus they say Acer palmatum ssp amoenum 'Red Pygmy'. For the Japanese botanists, Acer amoenum is a distinct species from Acer palmatum, thus they say Acer amoenum 'Red Pygmy'. Personally I agree with the Japanese botanists.

    Linearilobum is a name used for the group of cultivars with linear leaves, it has no botanical significance.

    Gomero
     
  21. rufretic

    rufretic Active Member

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    Interesting, I did not realize that. I do agree that sun exposure does not seem to play a role in my amoenums fall colors. My Osakazuki and Hogyoku both in almost full shade, showed the beautiful colors they are known for. On the other hand I have 3 Koto no itos all purchased at the same time from the same place so I would assume the same grower. Each one colored differently. The one that got the most sun turned red, the one in full shade was pure yellow and the one that got just a couple hours of sun had an orange color. Wierd? It will be fun to see if this is consistent each year as this was my first year with them.
     
  22. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes, I agree the green linearilobum cultivars do show variability with sun exposure. That's why in my statement above I said most amoenums......and not all amoenums.....

    Gomero
     
  23. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    i suggest this: jm Ginshi ,have a purple leaves in spring and yellow in autumn,the exp. is sun in morning shade in afteroon ,in this part of my garden the PH is neutral to low.
     

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  24. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    An interesting article on fall color:
    http://www.usna.usda.gov/PhotoGallery/FallFoliage/ScienceFallColor.html
    "When nights reach a threshold value and are long enough, the cells near the juncture of the leaf and the stem divide rapidly, but they do not expand. This abscission layer is a corky layer of cells that slowly begins to block transport of materials such as carbohydrates from the leaf to the branch. It also blocks the flow of minerals from the roots into the leaves. Because the starting time of the whole process is dependent on night length, fall colors appear at about the same time each year in a given location, whether temperatures are cooler or warmer than normal.

    During the growing season, chlorophyll is replaced constantly in the leaves. Chlorophyll breaks down with exposure to light in the same way that colored paper fades in sunlight. The leaves must manufacture new chlorophyll to replace chlorophyll that is lost in this way. In autumn, when the connection between the leaf and the rest of the plant begins to be blocked off, the production of chlorophyll slows and then stops. In a relatively short time period, the chlorophyll disappears completely.

    This is when autumn colors are revealed. Chlorophyll normally masks the yellow pigments known as xanthophylls and the orange pigments called carotenoids — both then become visible when the green chlorophyll is gone. These colors are present in the leaf throughout the growing season. Red and purple pigments come from anthocyanins. In the fall anthocyanins are manufactured from the sugars that are trapped in the leaf. In most plants anthocyanins are typically not present during the growing season.

    As autumn progresses, the cells in the abscission layer become more dry and corky. The connections between cells become weakened, and the leaves break off with time. Many trees and shrubs lose their leaves when they are still very colorful. Some plants retain a great deal of their foliage through much of the winter, but the leaves do not retain their color for long. Like chlorophyll, the other pigments eventually break down in light or when they are frozen. The only pigments that remain are tannins, which are brown.

    Temperature, sunlight, and soil moisture greatly influence the quality of the fall foliage display. Abundant sunlight and low temperatures after the time the abscission layer forms cause the chlorophyll to be destroyed more rapidly. Cool temperatures, particularly at night, combined with abundant sunlight, promote the formation of more anthocyanins. Freezing conditions destroy the machinery responsible for manufacturing anthocyanins, so early frost means an early end to colorful foliage. Drought stress during the growing season can sometimes trigger the early formation of the abscission layer, and leaves may drop before they have a chance to develop fall coloration. A growing season with ample moisture that is followed by a rather dry, cool, sunny autumn that is marked by warm days and cool but frostless nights provides the best weather conditions for development of the brightest fall colors. Lack of wind and rain in the autumn prolongs the display; wind or heavy rain may cause the leaves to be lost before they develop their full color potential.

    In areas that are often cloudy for much of the autumn, with rather warm temperatures, fall colors are dull at best.
    "
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  25. emery

    emery Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Tell it to Wisley. Although I have seen this article before, I must say that the very reason that we grow Japanese Maples in Western Europe is that for the most part they color beautifully in spite of our rather warm and overcast climates.

    Presumably the authors are referring to other North American maples. Indeed, with some notable exceptions (A. rubrum) these do not usually color well here. But we are talking about Japanese Maples if I'm not mistaken, and those provide us with colors that are anything but dull.

    I also disagree with the premise that fall color arrives at the same time regardless of weather. That certainly disagrees with my experience, I see up to 3-4 weeks variation. Even when I lived in Vermont it was difficult to predict exactly when fall color would peak, there was always much prognostication re: when the flood of tourists would arrive.

    -E
     

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