Identification: Probable Autumnalis Rosea - double pale pink, good looking tree in Ontario

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by garcan, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Hi
    I bought this prunus many years ago with no name. Please help identify the variety of this prunus. It survives Zone 5, reach a height of about 15 feet, and multi-trunk.
    Thanks
     

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  2. GreenGoose

    GreenGoose Active Member

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    I zoomed in on the flowers and I think I see more then one pistil per bloom. My old anf failing memory is that Prunus blooms have one pistil and Malus have 5.

    Could this be a flowering Crabapple?
     
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Definitely Prunus. Looks similar to 'Kanzan', but not quite right for that cultivar. Maybe 'Hokusai'. There's hundreds of named cultivars, though, and I don't know which ones might have been sold in your area.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Not a Sato Zakura, which those two cultivars are. Shoots not stout enough, flower stalks not thick enough etc.
     
  5. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    There are very few flowering cherries other than Kanzan and a couple weeping cherries (with little flowers) that are flower hardy to this area. I got this accidentally from the owner of a local nursery who offer it to me from his polyhouse corner.
     
  6. GreenGoose

    GreenGoose Active Member

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    I've not seen a flowering cherry take that form but it is a common form of crabapple.
    I did a search of google images and the photo seems to match malus form but not prunus.
    If you want to try, I searche "prunus flowering" and the changed it to "malus flowering"
     
  7. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    The train has taken a sidetrip. This is definitely a Japanese cherry.
     
  8. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Greengoose
    Here are some characteristics that indicate it is prunus:
    It blooms end of April to early May. (One year I have it in bloom in late snow.) In this area most crabapple typically bloom late May. Also the tree bark has typical shiny ringed-like appearance. Here is another picture of the flower and the buds.
     

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  9. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Higan (Prunus x subhirtella) cultivar 'Autumnalis Rosea' remains obvious candidate, this closeup looks more like it than first.
     
  10. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Ron
    Thanks. I cross checked my pictures against google image search on this name. It does seem close. However, does the name 'Autumnalis' imply it usually bloom in the fall?
     
  11. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Characteristically starts in November when and where weather is mild enough. Have seen one planting showing a sprinkling already here. Note that 'Autumnalis Rosea' is often mis-called 'Autumnalis', but the latter is a distinct cultivar with stouter shoots and less profuse, white flowers with fewer petals.
     
  12. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    'Autumnalis rosea' in early May? It looks like such a nice thickly-blossomed tree, too, which is not common for 'Autumnalis rosea' around here. And I've never seen that cultivar with such an upright shape. The blossoms do look similar to that, though, and in late spring that cultivar's blossoms would be about an inch in diameter (about twice as large as the blossoms that come out in the winter).

    Is the timing really that different in Milton, Ontario from Vancouver?

    Garcan, are you still around? I just came across this thread while looking for something else. I'd like to have it in the Ornamental Cherry Cultivar Identification forum, and if you can post a leaf closeup with a scale, and say whether it ever has early blooms, well - I don't know that we'll be able to add anything, but maybe. Getting the size of the blossoms and a clear closeup of the back of the flower with the stems (to see if there are hairs) might help.

    If you reply with photos next spring, you'll need to tick the Old Thread Warning box.
     
  13. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Re: Prunus Identification

    Wendy
    All the ones I have are multitrunked presumably induced by the nursery that produced them. The ones I propagated by airlayering are all single straight trunk. The flowers are probably betwee 0.5-1 inch (have to confirm that next spring). We did have occasional isolated flowers here and there in the fall or even early winter but barely noticeable. The normal blooming time is ranging from mid-April to first week of May depending on the year. It blooms profusely only in alternate year.
    Based on my son's description of Vancouver, you are probably one to two months ahead of us.
    I will try to take some pictures of the leave sizes when I get home (in a couple of days), and try to remember to take more detailed closeup of the blossoms next spring.
    Thanks for helping to confirm/correct the identification.
     
  14. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Garcan, the blossom size and the existence of barely noticeable fall and winter blossoms does support the 'Autumnalis rosea' id. I hope you'll post photos of the trees you propagated too, and I am going to ask for this thread to be moved, as it's interesting to know that these trees can look this good, and that was a lovely blossom photo.
     
  15. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Wendy
    Here are a few pics that you requested:
    Typical main trunk, leave size, the one propagated by air-layering, sample blossoms from last year:
     

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  16. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I don't know. Sure, whatever Ron says. It still looks too nice to be Autumnalis Rosea, though the third photo does have that look, and if the blossoms are really that small, I'll have to agree. Ron's better with leaves than I am. I keep looking for other subhirtella cultivars that it might be, but there are either no photos or nothing close enough to really see and I'm not familiar with anything else that could be in the running.
     
  17. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    Wendy, One stupid question; is there a planting technique that can alter the alternating years of the blossoms? For example, if I propagated a new plant, and disbud it for a particular year so that the heavy flowering can start in the following year. Can this alter the flowering cycle?
     
  18. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    I thought I couldn't possibly have anything to say about this, but I can say one thing. It seems to me that 'Autumnalis Rosea' trees around here never look like they're blooming, even in the spring, because they get to produce some number of flowers every year and they do it over 6 months, so there's never a decent display. Your tree seems to produce most of its flowers at the same time, and maybe at that time it produces the allotment from the previous year as well, so you get a very good looking display every two years. I think you should quit complaining <grin>. You probably don't appreciate how uninteresting these trees can look even at their best. If you want to wade through a lot of photos, there are several photos in the West End Neighbourhood Blog of some park trees and ones planted in front of an apartment building. Well, you can do a search in the thread to get to the postings of those.

    All the comments I've found are really about the setting of (apple) fruit but one article also mentions it applies to some stone fruit, where frosts and rain can interfere with the setting of fruit, leading to the tree overworking in one year and recuperating the next. Also it mentions that once that pattern becomes established, there is little that can be done for that individual tree. Then it goes on to talk about pruning, which you don't want to do to your ornamental cherries.
     
  19. garcan

    garcan Active Member 10 Years

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    If I understand you correctly, '...once that pattern becomes established, there is little that can be done for that individual tree', I should be able to propagate a few more and condition them to bloom on alternate year to my existing ones when they are small. That way I will be able to see cherry blossoms every year, but I have to look at different trees. Isn't that perfect? <Big grin>
     

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