Ponytail Palm with tiny caudex?? Please help!

Discussion in 'Caudiciforms and Pachycaul Trees' started by frauleinlayla, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    I just bought a ponytail palm at WalMart (couln't stop myself, it was the only one that looked okay, surrounded by half-dead ones). After looking it up online, my plant (which I know isn't really a palm, heh) seems odd: it's about 1 2/3 feet tall and almost two feet wide, but the caudex seems tiny compared to it: only 2" wide and 1" tall. It came in a 6" pot and is severely rootbound.

    My questions:

    1. Is this caudex size normal? What could be the reason?

    2. How can I encourage it to grow a larger caudex? I guess that's what I want, since the plant does not seem to be very well balanced. It seems to be doing fine when just standing thee, but when being transported, the whole thing was swaying back and forth because it's so top-heavy.

    3. Possibly related to #2: what size pot should I give it?

    In general it seems to be doing fine, just a few brown tips and very few bent, but not broken leaves (what do you expect from WalMart...). The foliage is a dark brown, so I'm pretty happy with it and would like to give it the best care I can.

    Please help?
     
  2. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    can you post a pic of it?? it might not be a ponytail palm, could be a pregnant onion.
     
  3. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    No problem, joclyn, here you go! =) I really don't think it's a pregnant onion, though. I looked through some pictures, and my plant's leaves are thin, not soft, and have that particular papercutty thing going on. Also, the caudex doesn't really look at all like a bulb/onion (other than vaguely in shape). It's hard and woody. Hope that helps! =)
     

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  4. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    the caudex size doesn't look unusually small...it's still a fairly young plant (probably 10 years or so). it looks REALLY healthy!! that was a good find!!

    most caudex plants will grow larger when the bulbous part is raised up above the soil - i'm not sure about this particular one (and, yes, it is a ponytail; not a preg. onion).

    i really wouldn't worry about it as it's nice and healthy (and still young). they grow slowly so it may be a while before it starts really building out in size. give it good care and take pics or measurements yearly to check for growth to see how it's doing.
     
  5. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Oh, yay! Thank you so much! I looked at dozens of pictures online, and I guess all of them were either older plants with a larger caudex and more of a "stem" - or much younger plants with a much shorter leaf length. Good to know my plant is happy and healthy!

    I do think if really needs repotting.... the roots are coming out of the bottom big time! Can someone suggest what kind of soil I should pot this in?
     
  6. Chungii V

    Chungii V Active Member

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    Free draining mix and water like a succulent by allowing the mix to dry slightly between waterings. I don't know how fast growing these guys are in your climate but I have attached a photo of one I have grown from seed at 3 & 1/2 years old. The caudex will form best if left unexposed (buried) at earlier stages of plants life. I had one years ago which I let become rootbound in a square pot and the caudex became square in shape.
    Watch out for that 'papercutty thing':} as the plant gets bigger so do the cuts!
     

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  7. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Oh wow, that looks nice with its multiple trunks! How big is that pot?

    I'm guessing mine is old enough to do better with an exposed caudex, right? And I'm glad I asked the soil question. I thought I'd just use my cactus soil, but then I read somewhere to use a 50/50 mix or regular and cactus soil, which didn't really make sense. Well, as soon as I find a good pot for it, cactus soil it is!

    Thanks for the help, guys! =)
     
  8. Chungii V

    Chungii V Active Member

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    The pot is about a foot high and maybe 3/4 wide. Once the caudex starts to get woody it's pretty safe to slowly start lifting the plant. Raise it a little each time you repot.
    My little plant has 4 heads on it and I chose it out of a huge batch of seedlings: the benefit of working in a nursery:}
     
  9. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Oooh, fun! Working at a nursery... that sure beats teaching bratty undergrads German. =) Nah, I have fun with what I do, too. I just don't get to pick pretty plants to take home, hehe.
     
  10. Chungii V

    Chungii V Active Member

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    Ahh hence the Fraulein...
    So long as you can get up in the morning and look forward to going to work that's half the battle won!
     
  11. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Hey guys, quick question! That same ponytail palm I started this thread about has been doing well, except for one thing: ever since I repotted it, it keep trying to lean instead of growing straight up. It's not a crazy angle or anything, it's just that the rootball is so small in proportion to the plant that it doesn't seem to be able to keep it upright. Is there anything I can do? I can't see a way to support it... I do have room in the new pot to add a little soil to the top, do you think that might help? Other ideas?
     
  12. Laticauda

    Laticauda Active Member

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    I would take three or four plastic to go forks to create some support beams. Then use pantyhose cut into strips to suspend the top in a straight fashion, until the roots take to the soil to keep it steady.
     
  13. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Umm... I don't know if I can visualize that properly, hehe. Also, the plant is over two feet tall, not sure if plastic forks would do the trick. Unless I'm still envisioning it wrong. =)
     
  14. markinwestmich

    markinwestmich Active Member

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    1. The caudex is small due to the fact that it has been growth restricted in the small container. Beaucarnea are one of several caudiciform/pachycaul plants that are genetically "hard-wired" to develop a large caudex, especially if given room to grow in a raised bed or relatively large container. Keep in mind that not all caudiciform/pachycaul plants behave in this manner, and in fact, may actually be the opposite for some plants. Pachypodium species, for example, will preferentially grow large caudexes if underpotted. Beaucarnea are strong growers, and will find some way of growing despite the conditions. Yours demonstrates a large amount of foliage and a small caudex due to underpotting. Therefore, you can, to some degree, alter the plant's appearance by over or underpotting. Underpotting tends to stimulate foliage, whereas, overpotting or planting in a raised bed will stimulate root and caudex growth in Beaucarnea species.

    2. At the beginning of the growing season (Spring), you can move it to a raised bed or larger container. A well-draining mix is essential. Support the plant with a few stakes by using some stiff wire gently wrapped around the caudex (where the caudex and foliage meet) and then around the stakes. Keep an eye on the tension on the wire as the plant grows as you do not want it to choke the plant. Realistically, though, once the new roots have grown into the pot, the plant will be stable enough to hold the weight of the foliage. You can likely remove the supports and wire at this time.

    3. Leaning of the plant is likely due to the fact that the roots have not completely filled the new container and/or it is seeking more light. The technique described above should help with the leaning. If it is a light issue causing it, then rotating the pot every few weeks and/or moving it to a better lit location will help. Do not bury the caudex of a Beaucarnea to stabilize it, as it is not a tuber, but more like a pachycaul tree trunk of sorts.

    Mark
     
  15. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Thank you so much, Mark! It's definitely not a light issue. The plant is in really good, filtered light, and the leaning is definitely a root issue. It feels unstable and "shaky."

    I just repotted in October when I bought the plant... do you think it would be worth to repot it again? Also, do they prefer deeper or wider pots? I have a couple of wide bowls that would work. Would that help the plant to spread its roots? Or is that a bad idea?
     
  16. markinwestmich

    markinwestmich Active Member

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    If the plant still feels unstable, then allow time for the roots to fill it's current container before attempting to move it to a larger container. Fall/Winter is it's rest/dormancy period where growth tends to slow down significantly. Give it some time of active growth over the Spring/Summer and I think the plant will be much more stable in it's container. Allow it to rest over the Fall/Winter, then re-evaluate the need to up-pot in the Spring next year.

    Deep pots vs. Wide/shallow pots is a matter of preference and the type of watering it typically gets. A wide/shallow container will typically dry out quicker, which might be advantageous if you have it outdoors in climates where it is receiving frequent rainfall. Conversely, a deep pot will hold more roots and soil, and may stay moist for longer periods of time. This might suit the person who waters infrequently or has the plant outdoors in an area of infrequent rainfall.

    Since Beaucarneacaudexes are above the soil level, container shape typically will not alter the shape of the caudex, that is, assuming the same volume available for root development. However, it will influence the root structure underneath, as expected. Basically, if you choose a shallow pot, then make sure the pot is wide enough that a sufficient root structure can develop.


    Mark
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  17. Laticauda

    Laticauda Active Member

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    Here is a picture. I did a mock up on one of my 4" draceanas. I only used three forks, because it's such a small pot, but you get the idea.
    If you need more support, add more forks!
    Hope this helps. (I use plastic forks, because they don't mold like chop sticks do. Yeah, learned that the hard way!)

    Let me know how it turns out!

    I like using azalea pots for my ponytail palms, I thought they had rather shallow root systems, but I could be mistaken. I do know they are used for bonsai, so it's possible to keep them with really shallow root systems. Whether or not this is actually GOOD for the plant, I don't know, haha.
     

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  18. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Thanks for the picture, that definitely helps! I might try that until I get some decent stakes and wires like Mark suggested. And yes, I have also learned the chopstick lesson, hehe.
     
  19. markinwestmich

    markinwestmich Active Member

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    Whether a container plant has a shallow or deep root system is largely dependent upon the shape of the container and to some extent plant genetics. For the most part, roots will seek out water and nutrients. So, if water and nutrients are deep in the pot, then it is likely you will find roots down deep. Conversely, in the wild, some arid-climate plants will tend to send out long roots just under the surface of the soil to maximize water uptake. Water in those environments tends not to stick around, but evaporate quickly in the heat and not soak into the ground, so shallow roots are advantageous.

    Bonsai pots that are shallow may offer the best way to show off a large caudex, but the downside is that it significantly slows growth and the soil dries out very quickly. Those that have committed themselves to taking care of bonsai will often have to water daily during the warmer times of the year. Granted succulents, caudiciforms, and pachycaul plants are a little more tolerant of dry conditions, their roots can still easily dry up and die if left unattended.

    Personally, I have tried the bonsai display pots. They look nice initially, but my plants have always suffered over time. I have had better success with deeper, clay pots and a well-draining mix. Not as nice looking, but it seems to work better for the health of the plants.

    Mark
     
  20. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    That works well for me... most of my plants are in simple, unglazed and undecorated terracotta pots... I like the simplicity of them, and I like the plant to be the main focus of attention. When I bought it, it was in a six inch plastic pot, and I repotted into an eight inch terracotta, and it seems to be happy. I've developed a strange way of watering this guy... I never water to the point that water actually flows out the drainage holes. Instead, I just give it about a cup and a half, evenly spread over the soil (I try not to get water on the caudex). I started doing this because I was worried of waterlogging him, and he seems fine with it. I still only have to water once a week the very most, often more like every ten days.
    Could this at all have the effect of the root system not spreading out as much s it would if I thoroughly watered the whole pot?
     
  21. markinwestmich

    markinwestmich Active Member

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    I think what you are doing right now is OK during it's rest period. However, by May, your Beaucarnea will be entering it's active growth period and will probably enjoy a good soaking.

    There are some variables to consider with watering arid-climate plants that have rest/dormancy periods. If the soil tends to hold a lot of water, then water sparingly and allow it to dry before adding more. If it drains and dries out quickly (preferred), then give it a good soak, then allow it to dry before adding more. How frequent you water will be up to the plant. When it is growing quickly, it may need water daily. When it is resting, it may need water once every few weeks.

    If you can, use generous amounts of drainage material in you soil mix and give the plants a good soaking. The water will wash through the soil, give the plants a good "drink", remove any trapped gases in the soil, and then dry up quickly to reduce your chances of root rot.

    The likely reason for the plant not sending out a lot of roots over the Winter was that it was in it's dormancy/rest period. In the next few months, I am sure you will find that the roots will grow significantly.
     
  22. frauleinlayla

    frauleinlayla Active Member

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    Alright, excellent! I have it in cactus soil right now, which seems to be draining nicely! And once I notice some growth (top OR roots), I'll start watering more. Thanks for your help, this was excellent!
     
  23. Laticauda

    Laticauda Active Member

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    You may have been over-watering it this winter. They aren't actively growing during the winter, so you water more sparingly. I could be mistaken though, since they are unglazed pots, so the air flow increases how fast it dries out.

    I thoroughly water until water flows out the bottom, then leave it for a couple weeks. I also use a plastic growers pot, though, so I'm sure that helps keep the roots moist during the intermediate time. I've started putting mine outside and I believe we have had the last frost of the year, so maybe he'll stay out there. It's pretty exciting! I have the opposite problem you do, I have large caudexes but very little foliage. I'm really eager to fertilize it, but I know it's too early, and I just need to be patient.

    (I wrote this before Mark replied, anything that we differ on, follow his instructions!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009

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