Identification: Plant ID

Discussion in 'Indoor and Greenhouse Plants' started by normalityrelief, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. normalityrelief

    normalityrelief Member

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    I've spent the better part of the day today scouring the online world for ways to identify this houseplant I've been caring for, all for naught. I can't find anything anywhere.

    Apologies if someone's ID'd this already, but does this poor plant look familiar to anyone? I've slowly been nursing it back to life (trust me, it looked far worse when I inherited it!), & I know I'd be able to do a more effective job if I knew what it was & could find some care tips on it.

    I'm willing to accept any help, even if all you can give me is partial info, like a family, etc. Thanks to any & all who can help!

    dave
     

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  2. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    It looks like Philodendron scandens (or whatever it's being caled these days) to me. It is, at the most basic of basics, a member of the Araceae.
     
  3. normalityrelief

    normalityrelief Member

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    Thank you so much, that definitely gives me a direction in which to search! I know practically nothing about horticulture (though I'm trying to learn), & as it was all I could do was look through endless photos of random plants!
     
  4. normalityrelief

    normalityrelief Member

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    Ok, well it's not the Heart Leaf Philodendron (Philodendron scandens subsp. oxycardium), because as it turns out, I have one of those as well, but didn't know what it was either. So thanks for helping me ID that one!

    I also checked out the Velvet Leaf Philodendron (Philodendron scandens subsp. micans), & it doesn't look to be that either. The main difference seems to be that mine appears to be primarily free-standing with thicker stems.

    Thanks so much for the help though!

    dave
     
  5. togata57

    togata57 Generous Contributor 10 Years

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    Has a look of Dieffenbachia to me.
     
  6. normalityrelief

    normalityrelief Member

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    I'd agree with you, except all the photos I can find of Dieffenbachia have distinctive-looking leaves that are lighter-colored on the inside & darker around the edges, which this one doesn't have. Thanks for the suggestion though!
     
  7. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    not a philodendron. i'd say diffenbachia, as well. the cane gives it away. they generally don't like full sun, so, if that's what you're keeping it in, it may be causing it to not be variegated.
     
  8. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    There could also be soil nutrition issues that are preventing the variegation - how long has it been since this plant was repotted into fresh soil?

    And guys, there are solid-green leafed Dieffenbachia species in my neck of the woods. Variegation is not a must. I'll just say that on this plant the leaf shape threw me for a loop, as I'm used to Dieffs being much more elongate than this one is.
     
  9. normalityrelief

    normalityrelief Member

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    Yeah, sadly this poor guy's in pretty bad shape. The leaves especially are having a rough time, making them all sorts of odd shapes.

    I'll definitely repot it in fresh soil & keep it out of direct sunlight. Assuming it is actually a Dieffenbachia, are there any other tips that anyone has? It's kind of become a personal quest to revive this little guy any way I can.

    Thanks for all the replies, you all have been most helpful!
     
  10. joclyn

    joclyn Rising Contributor

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    yes, lorax, i figured there were some solid green diff's around - wasn't sure, so offered an alternate theory as to why no variegation :)

    normalityrelief, diff's like a well draining soil that holds a bit of moisture and they also like a consistant amount of moisture. too much over- or under-watering will cause problems like you're seeing.

    there could also be some root-rot happening.

    repot, definitely. take a good look at the roots when it's unpotted and remove anything that looks brown/black and/or mushy. soil should be a mix of regular soil with something added in for drainage. i've not grown diff's, yet, i think they'd do well in what i use for draceana. for those, i use mostly cactus mix with some regular/plain soil and some extra perlite or orchid bark added in for additional drainage.

    container should have drainage holes. and the size should be based on the diameter of the root ball - there should be at least an inch of space between the roots and the sides of the container and should not exceed more than two inches of space.

    once repotted, allow to sit in the dry soil for a couple days - give the roots a chance to recover a bit from being fussed with. then do a thorough watering - slowly, so all the soil is completely moistened (add small amounts of water and wait a few minutes for it to soak down before adding some more and continue to do that, moving around the perimeter, until you just see excess draining out the bottom and then stop adding more water). after 30 minutes, discard any water that has collected in the drip tray/dish.

    depending on the size of the container, you should need to water at least weekly - a little more frequently with a smaller pot and a little less with a larger pot.

    these are pretty hardy plants and it should recover very nicely. please post updated pics in a month or so, so we can see how it's doing :)
     
  11. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE=Ok, well it's not the Heart Leaf Philodendron (Philodendron scandens subsp. oxycardium), because as it turns out, I have one of those as well, but didn't know what it was either. So thanks for helping me ID that one!

    I also checked out the Velvet Leaf Philodendron (Philodendron scandens subsp. micans), & it doesn't look to be that either. The main difference seems to be that mine appears to be primarily free-standing with thicker stems.




    Well, it is the same as "scandens" but it is really Philodendron hederaceum. If you want to get really technical it was named Philodendron miduhoi in 1950 but that name is also the same as Philodendron hederaceum. Philodendron miduhoi is just another name for the same plant granted primarily because it doesn't have much, if any, color on the abaxial (underside) of the leaf. Philodendron miduhoi normally does not have much of a velutinous leaf blade (velvet) although some variations do. Still, the venation (veins) of the plant give it away.

    The names Philodendron scandens, P.micans, P. oxycardium, P. miduhoi, and a bunch of others were all sunk into synonymy under Philodendron hederaceum more than 180 years ago although it took awhile for botanists to figure out the one named in 1950 was still the same thing.

    Science has known this a very long time but collectors insist on using a different name for any plant that doesn't look exactly like the one they envision. It is all due to a natural process known as natural variation. Plant collectors will fuss over this for eternity but all these species are one and the same. Just because a leaf looks a little different does not make it a new or different species. You can read about it here:

    http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron hederaceum pc.html

    Science fought this war for a long time and collectors just won't allow it to die. Plant species are determined by many factors including the examination of the veins (venation), the stem, the petioles, the roots, and the cataphylls but the ultimate is the examination of the inflorescence in aroids. The inflorescence of all the species mentioned is identical in their sexual characteristics.

    All the plants are one and the same despite having a different appearance and the species name is correctly Philodendron hederaceum. Just because a plant has a differnt color on the underside of the leaf, does or does not have the velutinous appearance, grows a little longer or shorter or any of the other "differences" collectors believe they can see is not an indicator of a different species.

    It would be like saying humans with different looking faces, skin colors, dark hair instead of light hair, or people that have larger or smaller bodies, are taller, shorter, or a different race are not human beings and should not be members of the species we know as Homo sapiens. A species has nothing to do with size or color.

    These plants will look little like the ones we grow if you find them in the rain forest due to morphogenesis (ontogeny) and natural variation. As a plant grows into an adult it changes to the point a colletor would likely never recognize it. My friend and mentor Dr. Tom Croat at the Missouri Botanical Garden has said many times this species is likely to have as many as 1000 different faces in the rain forests of Central and South America. You can read about natural variation here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Natural variation within aroid and plant species.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  12. SusanDunlap

    SusanDunlap Active Member

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    Philodenron - the raised main leaf rib gives it away. P.S. Didn't see any Dieffenbachia with a raised mid-rib.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
  13. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Yes Susan, it is certainly a Philodendron but there are close to 1000 species of Philodendron so the shape of the midrib has nothing to do with a determination. Many Philodendron species have a flat midrib, a raised midrib, a grooved midrib and to some degree even a slightly sunken midrib on the upper surface with a different shape on the lower surface. That alone is not a reliable indicator of either genus or species.

    Philodendron hederaceum has distinctive primary lateral leaf veins that curve toward the leaf apex or bottom tip of the leaf. The primaries are the veins that extend to the left and right of the midrib. As you can see in my photo below the venation is quite distinctive. I have taken one section of the photo above and blown it up for comparison (second photo in the group below).

    Compare the original photo to my photos on the left and right. As you can see the midrib on all three is almost flat which is a characteristic of Philodendron hederaceum (hay-day-RA-see-oom). One of the most distinctive characteristics is the shape of the cataphyll which is the "sheath" that protects a newly emerging leaf blade since it reflexes back in this species. The problem with the original photo is no cataphyll is visible.

    In science, natural variation within a species can cause the leaf to have many different colors, shapes and sizes. Neither a species nor a genus can be determined solely by any of these. Photos four and five are on the same plant just inches apart yet the color of the abaxial side (bottom) is different.

    Just because it is velutinous (velvety), lacks the velvet appearance, is redder, greener, brighter, darker, has a green underside versus a burgundy, green, yellow or red underside or any other slight other variation does not mean it is a different species. To be certain of a species a botanist would examine the stem, the roots, the cataphylls, the petioles,the venation (veins) and the sexual characteristics of the plant and the characteristics that can be observed in a single photo all compare to P. hederaceum.

    This plant has been described and published to science many times. Just a few include of the known synonym names include Arum hederaceum (1760), Philodendron scandens (1853), Philodendron micans (1854), Philodendron cuspidatum, (1854), Philodendron oxycardium (1856), Philodendron acrocardium (1858), Philodendron microphyllum (1854), Philodendron hoffmannii (1858), Philodendron pittieri (1899), and Philodendron miduhoi (1950). Since Philodendron hederaceum was the first correctly described correct to genus in 1829 by botanist Heinrich Wilhelm Schott (1794 to 1865) it automatically becomes the accepted scientific name.

    All these names came to science since this plant takes on many different "faces" in the wild. It does not always look the same in exactly the same way people don't always look the same. By the way, in the rain forest this plant can reach a blade length of 48 cm (19 inches) but we almost never see that since the plant must climb to a height of around 20 meters (60 feet) in order to do so. All we have to compare here is a single photo of a juvenile plant.

    The original plant in this discussion compares well to the plant described in 1950 which was known as Philodendron miduhoi but science has since declared it to be only by a synonym of Philodendron hederaceum. A synonym is a plant that is described to science that proves to be the same species as a plant previously described and accepted. In this case the original plant described is Philodendron hederaceum.

    Again, please read the link I posted on natural variation within species. Published work indicates one out of every 8 plant species on the face of the Earth is naturally variable. Every photo below is a natural variation of Philodendron hederaceum despite some look little like the others. Dr. Croat believes there could easily be 1000 or more different natural variations in the total range of this species which includes much of southern Mexico, all of Central America, the west of South America down to Peru and across the South American continent into Brazil as well as all the countries in the north from Colombia to French Guiana. The species is also found on a few Caribbean islands.

    As the species goes through it's natural ontogeny (life cycle) it changes. I have a large number of specimens of this plant in my collection and the blades at the top of the totem look nothing like the blades at the bottom. You can find leaves on the same vine that have reddish undersides as well as green undersides. it is all just natural variation within a species.

    And by the way, the plant in photo number three was taken as a cutting from the plant in the last photo.

    Same plant species but they don't look alike. This little "argument" began over 200 years ago and even though botanists have long since accepted the facts of science collectors refuse to do so. There is much more information here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron hederaceum pc.html
     

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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
  14. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    I've been trying for some years to locate a photo of a fully adult Philodendron hederaceum in the rain forest. Today one just dropped into my mailbox!

    This photo was taken by naturalist Joep Moonen in French Guiana. The plant is adult but will need to continue to climb in order to produce an inflorescence. This species (as well as the form called Philodendron scandens, Philodendron, micana, Philodendron oxycardium and all the others) must climb to at least 20 meters (60 feet) before they can reproduce.

    If you happen to be one of the folks that believes that little plant on your kitchen counter won't ever grow very large, this is it in the wild!
     

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  15. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    Is that what it looks like as an adult? I see that all the time in the forests here!
     
  16. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    Good! Then get some more photos and post them please. Dr. Croat says the plant must climb to at least 20 meters (60 feet), run out on a limb and then hang down before it will ever produce an inflorescence. I have no idea how we'll ever get a photo of an inflorescence but I'd love to see it!

    If you look near the base of the plant you should see the normal form that everyone grows.
     
  17. lorax

    lorax Rising Contributor 10 Years

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    No problem; I might even be able to get you inflorescence photos next time I go canopy dangling. It will all depend on the forest - if I can find a specimen growing on a Matapalo or Cedron tree, I'll have both the height that the plant needs, and a tree sturdy enough to support me dangling from its upper branches.
     
  18. photopro

    photopro Well-Known Member

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    You go girl!
     

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