Firstly I should explain the PBR / PP thing... It's a copyright that a grower can apply for, to stop others producing for profit, a cultivar that the grower has produce themself. (A few of you may have seen myself and Ron B going through the grammar involved when using the names in a previous thread) The reason I started with explaination is because it's not a well known fact. Here in Australia they are PBR (Plant Breeder's Rights) from what I can gather from Ron's advice is that they are labelled as PP (Plant Patent) in the U.S. I believe the copyrighting was put in place to keep the plants true to form and not alter the gene base through excessive cultivation. I can say it is not being very well controlled. Whereas I would blatantly refuse to do so, the owners of the business always have the final say and if no-one else will do it...... Nurseries cannot (well aren't supposed to) reproduce the plant unless they have applied to do so, yet the customer who buys the plant can take as many cuttings as they like and pass them on to whomever they like so long as no money passes through hands. So what's stopping that from damaging the genetic make up eventually producing variances? What if a plant were to naturally set seed or produce a variance such as variegation does this mean I am not allowed to look into developing those parts further because I am using a piece of a copyrighted plant? If it were me I'd be happy just to be able to say I developed that plant and encourage the distribution thereof. Where does all the money made go, back into producing more plants? And there is a lot more extra money made from these plants than a standard form. They cost more for the retailer and hence more for the customer who often doesn't care about whether there is a PBR/PP on the plant or not. The looks of disbelief when I explain "It's copyrighted therefore it costs 2 to 3 times more than the standard form". Try selling a rose for $50 because of PBR/PP when there's enough varieties bare rooted at $7 maybe the huge profit makes up for lack of sales? I do know that putting a PBR/PP on a plant is far from cheap (10's of thousands of dollars) but on a whole is keeping a plant constant and reducing variances actually holding back further development, okay some may be negative, but it may also produce better disease resistance or the like. I am interested in what other's think and what they have found possibly good or likewise bad because of the way new plants are now being released.