Orange Dream ??

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Johnna, May 26, 2004.

  1. Johnna

    Johnna Member

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    I have a question for the more experienced maple growers at this forum. I am a novice maple collector and I purchased an "Orange Dream" maple on ebay over the winter. It was dormant when It arrived in Febuary. As it started to leaf out I noticed it lacked the orange new growth I expected as described and pictured in Vertrees Maple book. I potted the tree and kept it in fairly heavy shade and hoped it would color up as I had expected. It never has.
    I contaced the seller who told me that it might not color up until next year because of the shade. He is certain it is an orange dream.
    Does this seem plausible to anyone with experience with orange dream?
    I've attached photos taken about 2 week ago.
     

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  2. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    That most certainly does NOT look like Orange Dream to me, and my own plant (still very small and immature) looks like this picture
    Even in heavy shade it should be more yellowish I think. Could you move it into some light?
     

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  3. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    looks like an orange dream sitting in heavy shade to me
     
  4. Johnna

    Johnna Member

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    Just to let everyone know I have moved it into a spot that gets early afternoon sun. Is it possible from other peoples experience that it may color up?

    Loooking for more feedback! Thanks!
     
  5. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    i think so, mine can really handle morning sun only no noon or later.
    but in shade mine looks green also..only the new growth gives it away.
     
  6. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I have just bought a new book on Maples for the Garden. The Orange Dream picture in it (in the shade) is a greenish colour
    You should get better colouration in some sunlight
     
  7. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi Johnna:

    We are in pretty much the same area if not almost the same exact area.
    Green leafed Maples can handle a lot of sun but it is best to plant them
    in an Eastern exposure here for us. It is the warm and hot winds as I
    am sure you know very well that will chew up our Maples here. Give the
    Maple morning sun if you can and then shade in the mid-afternoon for
    best results.

    It seems that coloration problems persist in many of the UBC boards
    when people do not know that giving a plant new soil, a new location
    and with new nutrients for the plant to "play" with that we will lose
    the coloration in variegated forms for the short term.

    As far as online buying the best advice I can give is for the prospective
    buyer to do their homework. Know the Maple you are buying before
    you buy it. Buying from an online auction source is a crap shoot as
    most of the sellers are not on the up and up regarding plants. They
    are "kids" in most cases trying to make a quick buck so you have to
    be extra careful. Always buy from a reputable source and then you
    have a much better chance of getting what you paid for. If you pay
    at auction $10 for a Maple, you will in most cases get a $10 plant
    in return. Is the plant what you expected for a variety is the real
    litmus test. I've screened various online sellers at a prominent
    auction forum and to be honest there are only about 5 that know
    much of anything and then they can be wrong in what they think
    they have for a variety of Maple. One seller in particular has
    various forms that came only from Oregon, so if I were to ask
    him where did he get his Maples and he says New York, I would
    be more than suspicious that the plants are not the same as the
    ones I know.

    Give your Orange Dream another year or two as it may take that
    much time to see the variegation, if at all there will be any.

    Jim
     
  8. Dale B.

    Dale B. Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I have several 'Orange Dream' that are last year's grafts. I have been impressed with the spring colors. I think that if you now have yours in some sun, you should have color on the new growth. The color on 'Orange Dream' is most striking in the spring and fades to green in the summer. The new growth flushes should show orange then fade to yellow and then green. Mine are in full sun from 11 until 2 or 3 and show no signs of leaf burn yet.
     
  9. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi Dale:

    I've seen Orange Dream in Oregon in the Spring so I know
    what you are saying. The problem we have here is that an
    array of variegated and other notable color forms just do not
    keep their color for us. Ukigumo looks like a million bucks
    in Oregon and in two seasons here most people would not
    recognize our forms of Floating Clouds that we have in
    comparison to theirs. Versicolor for us never turns any pink
    at all but in other areas it does have some pink coloration in
    the early Spring.

    There is a lot of frustration with various forms of Japanese
    Maples that we have to face that other areas may not and in
    most cases do not have to endure.

    For Orange Dream I just want to see it grown somewhere
    near here for while to evaluate it to know if I really want
    to grow that plant or not.

    For you, I think you had the right plant or wood to start
    with which is not so much the norm for us here any more.
    Unless we know the origin of the source material or can
    see the plant in person that we may want to grow, we can
    easily and all too frequently not get the right plant from
    many online and offline sources.

    Jim
     
  10. Judith

    Judith Member

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    knowing that your Orange Dream is doing well in good sun, gives me faith. The spot that I wanted to plant in is a little brighter than I had thought.
     
  11. ashizuru

    ashizuru Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi, your A.P. Orange Dream looks like mine when it is in its summer resting period, you should get a second flush of new growth, in mid summer, but that's not to say it will, a cultivar can take up to 2 years adapt to it new location, before it will show its characteristical growth patterns, in the the main it is recomended that O.D. needs some shade, just be patient and give it some TLC.

    Ashizuru.....
     
  12. Judith

    Judith Member

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    Re: Orange Dream

    Hello I just bought a Orange Dream. It is a beautiful small tree at this point, but in full leave. Yellow with some orange.

    I have read many different full size figures for this tree. Everything from 10 to 20 feet. Some have called it a small tree. Others have call it little more than a bush.

    what say you?
     
  13. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    I think Orange Dream should leaf out with color regardless of how much sun it gets. The amount of light seems to determine how well the color holds, and is a bit of a balancing act: too little it goes green (but a fresh, light green) too much it burns.

    Here are 3 pics of my OD plants, 2 from mid-april, the other from mid-may. The plant in the pot gets much more sun, and has kept it's color better; but 3 very hot days suddenly over 30 C and it burnt quite a bit. (Now putting out new buds). The one in the ground gets very little light, about 1/2 hour of sunlight and is now (late june) a very light green, where the burnt one retains some yellow/orange color. The final picture is the plant in the ground, the color still holding reasonably well at that point.

    As for the eventual size there does seem to be a bit of confusion. I've always assumed it was more of a small plant (to 3 m) and that other information was in error. Don't really know though!

    -E
     

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  14. Judith

    Judith Member

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    Re: Orange Dream

    Thank you so much for all the information and the photos. The photos were great. There is a nursery here on Vancovuer Island. Just outside of Chemainus. Called Island Specialty Nursery. Their have all sorts of special Maples. I also have a Orido Nishiki from them. info@specialityplants.ca

    Thank you again, Judith
     
  15. Judith

    Judith Member

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    Well I have now planted my OD in the ground. It is not really a good day to plant a tree. A little too hot and strong sun. This time of year it will get stronger sun but soon it will be a little shadier. You guys might laugh, but I have put up a large umbrella near the newly plant tree. Just to give it a little more shade till it gets ajusted to its new home. We used to something similar with plants, (cactus) that would need and want full sun. Just till they get ajusted to the stronger sun. Other was they would burn.
     
  16. Maple_Lady

    Maple_Lady Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Johnna,

    I have been growing acer palmatum for over 20 years and I added Orange Dream to my inventory about 6 years ago. I still am in awe after all these years how one plant of the same cultivar can be so different from another. You may have an Orange Dream, but the picture you posted didn't appear to have the right leaf structure with or without sun.

    I have Orange Dream planted in partial shade and full sun and the two are almost identical in color. Two years ago I sold an Orange Dream that was really orange and I thought the beautiful color was the fact that I hadn't moved this 2 gallon maple into the greenhouse, but left it outside to leaf out on its own. I have never seen this color of orange on any of my other ODs much to my chagrin. I now wish I hadn't sold it.

    Maple buyer beware is a good habit to practice. I have witnessed seedlings being sold as named cultivars, a big no, no. Check your references before you buy and ask how old the maple is after the graft e.g. 1 year after graft. I do believe all Japanese maples are beautiful even seedlings which I have scattered around in my wooded areas, but when you have a particular cultivar in mind and pay good money - you want what you paid for.

    Lastly, I am glad I found this site. I was looking up information about my friend Talon Buchholz and his ghost series of maples when this site came up in a search. Thanks, Sam, Eastfork Nursery [www.eastforknursery.com]
     
  17. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    Most people get katsura and orange dream confused. Also lemons and oranges.
    More than likely these trees are being crossed labeled.
     
  18. Maple_Lady

    Maple_Lady Active Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yes, Katsura and Orange Dream can be confused though the leaves on the Katsura are a somewhat smaller. Another possibility is Mizuho beni. This is a new cultivar for me and the spring growth is nearly identical to Orange Dream, however, summer color is green and not lemon orange.

    I used labels made with a thermal printer so they do not fade in the sun. Very important for me to keep all of these pretty babies properly labeled. Winter time is particularly confusing without labels, lol. Sam
     
  19. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    No way. As Sam already pointed out, the leaves are different enough to allow, even a non-initiated, to tell them apart. Plus the yellows are not quite the same (at least with my two O.D.s!!).

    Gomero
     
  20. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Look to see if the graft failed and you got rootstock instead. On a small starter plant like this it should be especially easy to tell if the leafy part is coming from above or below the point of union.
     
  21. Johnna

    Johnna Member

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    Hello,

    Just wanted to follow up on my Orange Dream post. It's been 2 years since my post and my orange dream never did "orange up", it is still as green as in the original photos. I have a Katsura in my collection and it is a lovely plant, nothing like my supposed orange dream. Some day I may add a real orange dream to my collection, until then I will just dream in orange :') -Johnna
     
  22. Judith

    Judith Member

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    Thank you for the up date. As I said before I would rather not plant a tree this time of year. But a local specialty nursery is doing a major down sizeing. So I'm being rather careful. My is doing rather well even in the hot sun and a heat wave,(well for us here on Vancouver Island anyway, :))))
     
  23. graftedmaplecollector

    graftedmaplecollector Active Member 10 Years

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    Hmmm, my orange dream colors up very bright in the spring, but it fades
    lime green in the summer as I keep it in heavy shade....not unlike that one, but
    if it has never colored up at all it must not be an orange dream.
     
  24. Judith

    Judith Member

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    Well like I said the tree is a new one to me. And the top leaves are a bit more yellow with orange trim. The under leaves are different shades of green. So maybe in the shade they stay greener. I would think so anyway. The spot I plant mine up in will have later in the afternoon shade. But I have been rather carefull as it has been really hot of late. But it seems to be doing fine. A few of the top leaves did burn but that was to be expected.
     
  25. Judith

    Judith Member

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    Hello there, I got my tree last year. We had a very hot summer, I had it under a large beach umbrella. It still was too hot. I really worried about it. Gave it lots of water, it is in the ground and has good drainage. Kept moving the umbrella around, lol. But this year it is much happier. The photos were taken this past spring. The leaves started out red orange and then green now the the top ones are yellow/green and the one in the shade a light green. I hope the photos came through.
     

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