oh, nuts !

Discussion in 'Fruit and Nut Trees' started by pgreen18, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. pgreen18

    pgreen18 Member

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    Can anyone tell me if walnut, pecan, almond, and gingko trees do well together? I have read to plant almond trees with peach trees. I have some plum, cherry, and apple trees. Any suggestions on placement of the nuts? Thanks a bunch !
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2004
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    They won't have any trouble growing on the same property, as long as the site has suitable soil, exposure and climate for each kind, but you may not be able to layer them successfully, with the small ones in the shade of the tall ones. Proabably better to put the walnuts, pecans and ginkgoes where they can stretch out without overtopping the others.
     
  3. pgreen18

    pgreen18 Member

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    Climber, is 30' enough, or should I allow more space between? Thanks again.
     
  4. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Ginkgoes are slow, walnuts fast. All of these make large trees. If you are there long enough the walnuts may become crowded even with a 30' spacing. As with other planting, spacing is partly determined by what time frame you are planning for. If you are wishing and able to space them for ultimate possible development, assuming that they will do at least as well there as some in my state have done, then here are some representative dimensions (last dimension of each is crown spread):

    Ginkgo

    70' x 12'6" x 56'
    86' x 3'5" x 21'

    Pecan

    120' x 10'11" x 76'

    Walnut, Black

    95' x 19'2" x 119'
    112' x 8'8" x 78'

    Walnut, English

    76' x 12'5" x 83'
    68' x 12'4" x 72'
    82' x 10'8" x 63'
    66' x 11'7" x 91'
     
  5. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    Dwarf nut trees?

    Is there any parallel to apple trees here? We have apple options ranging from full size thru semi-dwarf and dwarf with the smallest looking like tomato plants.
     
  6. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Long term it might be a mistake to plant an Almond or a Ginkgo
    within a 30' lateral side of an English Walnut, a Black Walnut
    or a Pecan either, unless you want to continually prune the
    canopy of both of the Walnuts and the Pecan. Pecans are easier
    to deal with than Walnuts are for shaping them and controlling
    the growth. In bare ground it is the Juglans emitted from the
    roots of both Walnuts and the Pecan that will cause the most
    trouble for the Ginkgo but it will be the tannins emitted from
    the leaves once they become wet that will be more harmful to
    the Almond.

    If you must plant an Almond or a Ginkgo near a Walnut or
    a Pecan plant them North or South, not East or West of the
    Pecan and the Walnuts.

    As a general rule: Plant Walnuts, Pecans, Chestnuts, Filberts
    and Pistachios together with 20-30' spacings. Plant Almonds,
    Apples, Pears, Asian Pears, Peaches, Nectarines, Cherries,
    Apricots, Plums, Persimmons and Pomegranates together with
    15-20' spacings. On dwarfing rootstock the 20' spacings for the
    Pomes and the Stone Fruits can be cut in half.

    Almonds are generally grafted on Titan or its derivative
    rootstock which is an Almond understock. The old 60's
    and 70's Almond understock was Peach and Nectarine
    rootstock such as Nemaguard and Nemared.

    I've grown Almonds, Cherries, Peaches and Plums in close
    proximity to Pecans and Walnuts but I will not recommend
    others doing that unless they have some experience growing
    these trees and know what the mature sizes of these trees will
    eventually be.

    Ginkgoes will be your the tougher tree to grow as they do
    much better planted far away from any tannin or Juglans
    producing tree. Most Ginkgoes are notorious slow
    growers, even planted in well watered lawn and garden
    settings here. If Ginkgoes can get a lot of marine air, or
    lots of moisture from high humidity, they will grow much
    better than in dry, less humid climates but they are better
    grown almost solitary, away from most any root invasive
    tree.

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2004
  7. pgreen18

    pgreen18 Member

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    Many Thanks !

    Okay, thanks to all of you, I've made the decision. I'll plant the pecans about 150' from the Gingko and the Walnut far away from either. After planting the Gingko, I mowed some brush and discovered a little mimosa about 15-20' from the Gingko. I want to keep it and think it to be no problem since the Gingkos are so slow-growing, the mimosa not very large and short-lived (relatively speaking). Any thoughts on this?
    Ralph, no connection to the apple, I just threw that in in case anyone had suggestions as to placement relative to them. Thank you, Jim, for the time you took for all the details (I'm saving it). And thank you, Ron, for your interest and help to everyone here. And, I think the trees will definitely outlive me and grow much after I'm gone (I'm 55), but wouldn't it be nice for the next generations to have them right - that's just assuming no "progress" takes place <grin> -patty
     
  8. pgreen18

    pgreen18 Member

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    Thanks again

    Oh, Ron, thank you for taking the trouble to list dimensions. I'm saving those, too.
     
  9. Ralph Walton

    Ralph Walton Active Member 10 Years

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    Dimension query

    Ron, thanks also for the dimensions, but I'm very new to this and totally un-instructed. Could you identify the other dimensions as well please? I think I've got the first number (height ?) but what is the much smaller middle number?
     
  10. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Height, Circumference, Spread.
     
  11. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Hi Ralph:

    Ultimate sizing for Fruit & Nuts trees depends entirely on the
    variety, envinronmental and climatic factors and in some cases
    the rootstock used to graft onto.

    Choctaw and Cherokee Pecans do not grow the same size and
    shape as a Mahan, Mohawk and Texan Mahan will. The Choctaw,
    for example will be shorter and wider in its lower growth, all
    things being equal, than a Texas Mahan will. The Texas Mahan
    will be taller and wider, have fuller growth in the middle of the
    tree upwards and is a much more round headed tree than a
    Choctaw. I've used both in landscape plantings and in home
    gardens and I will plant these side by side with the Choctaw
    planted into the prevailing wind with the Texas Mahan 25-30'
    East or in certain cases South of the Choctaw.

    For Walnuts a Franquette will not grow as large as a Howard
    or a Chandler will. There the height difference can be as much
    as 35' for the Franquette and the Chandler in the right location
    can get upwards of 60' tall. We can always prune these trees to
    size and shape them to the height that we want them to grow.
    Generally, in commercial orchards Walnuts, regardless of
    variety grown, will have their canopies thinned to open up more
    light into the center of the tree every three years or so and to
    prune some of the rangier side branching to allow better air
    movement from tree to tree as well as let in more light in an
    orchard. Commercial Orchards that did not plan their spacings
    well in relation to the varieties they are growing are constantly
    pruning their trees. I know of a grower two miles away from
    me here that got so tired of pruning his Payne's and Zulu orchards
    every year that five years ago he pulled out every other tree in
    those orchards. Then again he planted them 15' apart and last year
    again pulled out every other tree to yield what his spacings should
    have been at the beginning.

    Knowing the ultimate size of the tree, left alone, is rather important
    but knowing the eventual shape of the tree is far more important to
    me. It is not the height that will determine planting spacings in most
    cases but the overall spread of the tree and whether we plan to prune
    the tree or trees that will better determine what our planting spacings
    will be. Yes, indeed with some Walnuts 30' spacings will not be
    enough room as the lateral side branching of the trees may grow into
    each other. So, we should have an idea as to what we want from the
    tree before we designate a spacing for other accompanying trees. Most
    Walnuts and several Pecans can be grown singly without a pollinizer
    but we generally plant these in two's to better ensure a decent crop.
    For a home garden planting in two's is not necessary for Walnuts and
    several Pecans as we can get an adequate crop from just one tree but
    it will depend on the varieties grown as a Mohawk Pecan will generally
    produce more nuts by its lonesome that a Choctaw, Cherokee and the
    Mahans will grown singly by themselves. Franquettes and Chandlers
    will generally produce more Walnuts grown by themselves than a
    Howard, Payne, Zulu and the old standard commercial Walnut for
    us, Hartley, will.

    The Carpathian or Hardy Persian Walnuts such as Ambassador,
    Russian, Cascade, Hansen and Somers are the hardiest of the
    Walnuts and should be able to withstand Zone 1-3 cold temps.

    Pawnee, Wichita and Mohawk are the preferred Pecans for the
    cooler Zones 2-3.

    Jim
     

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