Mystery Maple - ID Please

Discussion in 'Maples' started by maplesandpaws, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Trying to figure out what I have. I bought it late last fall (bare) and it was supposed to be a Crimson Queen - definitely not, lol. So, I've had suggestions of both Waterfall and Viridis from others, and the vendor I bought it from, when I inquired as to what it might be/what green dissectums they carried, replied very succinctly "Might be Seiryu". Well, thanks for the info, lol.

    So, what do you all think? Pictures are during leaf-out and with the leaves nearly completely opened. I can get a new shot tomorrow if it would be helpful.
     

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  2. DougieMapleSeed

    DougieMapleSeed Active Member

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    It's difficult to say for certain which cultivar it is, but I do know that it is not 'Seiryu'. If you bought it at one of the big box stores, it likely is 'Viridis'.
     
  3. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Got it from Dallas Bonsai Garden, but I know what you mean about the box stores.

    I compared the leaves to my Seiryu - ie, held up the pot to the tree, lol - and the leaves are definitely not the same. I'll have to do that with my Viridis I have in the back yard to check on that front. As it was leafing out, the leaves did have a fine pubescence to them that I don't recall seeing on my Viridis. From what I've been told, this is a trait common to Watefall; is this correct?
     
  4. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    Hi Andrea,
    My vote is Waterfall. I did a bunch of waterfall grafts this year and have been watching them close. I can take up-close pictures within the next few days of both Viridis and Waterfall. If you'd like to see what both of those trees are growing like here in NC.
     
  5. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Maxwell, if you could take a picture of the leaves from both side by side, I would appreciate it - thank you!

    In the backyard, I have a green dissectum that was purchased from Lowe's a couple of years ago. It was labelled Viridis, so one can never be 100% on the box store IDs, but I'm fairly confident it was marked correctly as it seems to have a fairly upright habit. From what I've read, Viridis and Waterfall are very, very similar, with the biggest difference being more upright for Viridis, and more prostrate for Waterfall. I compared the unknown tree with Viridis today, and the leaves looked very similar; however, as I don't have a Waterfall to compare it to, I can't be 100%.
     
  6. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    I have two huge specimen trees of both very close to my house. From what I know of viridis, is has a much more winding habit. I would be more than happy to snap some pictures. I am currently nursing 25 new baby Waterfall grafts and the new growth of yours, looks identical to how the growth in my plants pockets and the leafs hang. From your picture, it looks like a nice healthy 8'' scion graft and then never staked allowing it to walk sideways like waterfall... My profile picture is my dog Hunter in front of a Viridis. I have also added some pictures under Waterfall in photo gallery. Give me a few days because of work and school and I will get you some nice up close shots of both side by side... )
     
  7. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Andrea...Added a few pictures of various 'green dissectums' at the bursting stage today,think you might just have to wait a little bit longer before you can 100% put a name to the tree.

    1,2,Palmatifidum
    3.Flavscens
    4.Viridis
    5.Viridis 'Olandense'
    6,7,Waterfall
    8,9,Ellen

    Such a difficult call at this stage,wait until you can get a better look at the leaf structure,and you can see better the lobes how incised and toothed down the margins they go,plus how deep does it cut into the midrib of the leaf,they all look so similar

    Could be anything at this stage,you might even have to wait until fall to be certain. Have done this myself before today!!

    Day three of sunshine :) :) :) going to change at the weekend though, but the light is certainly moving things on now!!
     

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  8. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Maxwell, sure no hurry - I appreciate your assistance!

    Roebuk, thanks for the pictures :) The last picture in my initial post shows the tree in question fully leafed out. They are definitely not Seiryu leaves (the suggestion given to me by the nursery I got it from), nor are they Filigree (how I'd hoped, lol), but it might be Viridis (the only other green dissectum I have).
     
  9. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    Hi Andrea,
    I did some homework for you today. First let me start by saying, I am not an authority. If anyone has any better info, please chime in. I find it difficult finding credible information. If anyone has anything to add please do, because I'm still learning as best I can. The way I now understand things is Viridis is actually an ambiguous term used to describe any green dissectum. I would imagine there probably is a single plant rightfully named Viridis somewhere, but it has been flooded with multiple plants with similar characteristics being labeled as being in Virdie group. So I would imagine it will be very challenging trying to pin down the real Viridis. Having said all that, I did take some nice pictures of both plants today. What I have personally noticed is that the leaves on Waterfall are much bigger. They also seemed like the mature leaves were slightly darker or richer green. This might have only been shade placement, but I did notice that side by looking at the overall foliage of both plants. I also noticed the scion's diameter for one year growth was much thicker and beefy on the waterfall. I'll post the Waterfall pictures in another reply.
     
  10. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    For some reason I don't see the pictures I added in the message. I'll try to add the Waterfall now.... The last picture is both plants side by side.
     

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  11. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    This is the Viridis.
     

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  12. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Maxwell, sorry for the late reply, things have been busy and I've not had much computer time the past several days.

    Firstly, thank you SO much for your efforts, I really do appreciate it! The pictures you've provided are also lovely. Regarding this, the picture of the leaves of both Waterfall and Viridis side by side, Waterfall is on the right, correct? I wish there was a nursery in town that would reliably have both (correctly identified) cultivars on hand so I could compare the leaves of my plants. As I do not, though, based on your picture, the leaves of my Viridis look more substantial, like the leaves on the right, vs those on the left. The unknown green dissectum that initiated this thread, look a little more like those on the left - but, it is a younger, smaller plant so that could be a factor too.
     
  13. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    Hi Andrea,
    Yes, the waterfall on the right. I have super high res photos so you can really zoom if you are interested.
     
  14. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    These are the leaves of the unknown tree, first, and my Viridis. What do your eyes see?
     

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  15. Maxwell77

    Maxwell77 New Member

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    Hi Andrea,
    Well? It honestly doesn't look like the waterfall plant I am familiar with anymore. Your unidentified plant's sub-lobes have more of a curve or hook. The waterfall I know has more barb like points. I see them as "shark teeth" like. The color of unidentified does look more a limey-yellow. I don't know if the light was a factor in the photograph? Perhaps a Flavescens? I also have a big Flavescens close by me I can snap pictures of if you'd like. Any reason go visit some awesome trees and learn I'm always happy with... )
     
  16. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    I never picked up on the hook before, but you're right. I just checked the last picture you posted for the Viridis leaves - they look like the leaves of my known Viridis, and I'd hazard to say the same as the unknown one. As for the coloring, it's pretty much the same as my Viridis - the lighter color was due to the sun shining on/through it. But yeah, if you want to compare the leaves to those of the Flavescens, go for it! I'd do some hunting around myself, but locally our nurseries don't have much variety when it comes to Japanese maples. :(
     

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