This tree is about 50 years old, stands about 40 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of about 5 feet. This tree has some historical value tied to my heritage home. It has developed a problem where the clumps of new needles this tree sprouts, come out, but stay tightly stuck to each other. The result is that branches take on a very sparse and dead look as much of the green foliage is gone. It has this problem on a branch to branch basis, some branches are completely healthy, and the next branch is completely affected by the clumping needle problem. At this moment, there are more impacted branches than healthy ones, and each year the number of healthy ones declines. I have asked a number of arborists about this condition with no luck. I would sincerely appreciate any help. I have attached two pictures to this message. One shows a healthy branch and one impacted by this problem. The second picture shows my tree and illustrates how the problem is spreading. Regards, Bob
How long have you been seeing these symptoms? It looks more like insect damage to me but may be a combination of factors that is causing this to happen. Where the needle bundles are stuck together, are there any sap deposits giving the needles a sticky feel to the touch? On the first photo with the infected limb, did the little dark colored specks on the paper fall off from that afflicted limb? Does the trunk of this tree show any wetness, sap deposits or any unusual or uncharacteristic discoloration? Have you had someone from your ministry come out and look at this tree? If so, what did they say about it? Are there any other Deodar Cedars or Pines nearby affected like or similar to your tree? Can you describe your soil type and have you ever applied any sand on top of or into the soil at any time in the last 5-10 years or so? Jim
Mr. Shep, Thank-you for taking the time to consider this problem. I have noticed the problem for about the last five years. The needle bundles are very tightly stuck together and difficult to pry apart. That being said, they are not full of or covered with sap. I obtained another sample and tried to see if bits of black fell off, they did not. There are no obvious signs of bugs etc. The trunk of the tree does not show any wetness, discolouration or excessive flows of sap. Two of my neighbours have the same tree and both trees appear healthy. The soil is this area is quite sandy and well drained. I have not placed any sand on or near the tree base. I hope these responses answer your questions. I have not had any Ministry people look at this problem. I was not aware that there was any resource available to me in this area. Is this a Provincial resource? Thanks again for your consideration, Regards, Bob Campbell
I've never seen anything like this. Seems it is spreading, so it could potentially be serious. Send or take a sample to: Forestry Commission Forest Research Station Alice Holt Lodge Farnham Surrey GU10 4LH Website: http://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/fr/INFD-5UWHXL Addenum: Just thought I'd better check - are you in Surrey, UK, or Surrey, Canada? If the latter, my info is no use to you
Daniel: Can Bob call someone at the Ministry to come out and look at this tree or does Bob have to go to them? Bob: If they will come out have them look for nematodes in the roots. Also, have them check for Deodar Weevils in the affected limbs. My first thought when I saw the second photo was that this tree might be in decline due to nematodes that can attack Deodar Cedars. We have had problems here with certain Gardenias, as well as certain Azaleas and other ornamental plants that are affected right now with nematodes that are prevalent in many of our sandy soils here in the San Joaquin Valley. The Deodar Weevil is a secondary invader which means they will come in after the tree has already been weakened by something else such as disease or another insect that has invaded. The "look" of the damage to the limbs does seem right for that insect but the needle bundles sticking together is what has me confused. There is more going on than the needles sticking together in this tree as evidenced by the needle cast and texture of the young shoot to the left of the main twig and the irregular condition of the twig itself as shown in the first photo. Perhaps I am seeing things that are not there. Jim
I've asked Douglas to step in and comment - he'll know what the best course of action is. Actually, now that I think about it, I recall going with Douglas to Abbotsford to drop off a few pest problems a couple years ago. Aha, found it: BC Plant Diagnostic Laboratory which offers a fee-for-diagnosis service.
You guys can stay up there, we don't need anyone going around leaving pest problems down here. We have plenty already. By now, I'd think the nurserymen and gardeners would gang up on you when they saw you coming.
I believe Surrey Nurseries has taken over the contract propagation of conifers from the Green Trees (govt) nursery also in Surrey. They may have some interest and/or expertise you can tap. Call ahead! Showing up with a diseased sample may cause some adverse reaction! Ralph
Gentlemen, (Ron, Daniel, Mr. Shep, Michael, Ralph) Thank-you for some very good ideas! Sorry, I live in Surrey B.C., not the UK, I would be happy to use this tree as an excuse for a British visit, but the spousal unit may object... (and I will stay away from WA!!) I will contact both Surrey Nurseries and the B.C. Plant Diagnostic lab to see if they can identify the problem. I will post any information I obtain on this board. Thanks again everyone! Mr. Shep, thanks for your detailed response. Regards, Bob Campbell
Bob, see what you can find out as it does look like you might either have nematodes or a root borer of some kind working. The distressed look to the tree or plant as it progresses over time is what we look for in feeling there is nematode damage. Where we've seen it on Conifers the tree will not turn brown much but when the tree gives up it will turn an allover golden color and then brown all at once. We do not know the history of your tree as to what may have prompted this condition. I feel it would be better to have a specialist or a series of them come out and look at the nearby vegetation, establish whether there is some insect damage to some of the branches and young twigs, see if the roots are growing into a cesspool or leach lines like some of them can for us here when we have our own wells and septic tanks in the rural areas and check out the condition of the roots as best as they can. I am not finding out online what is causing the needles to stick together. I am not so sure the needles sticking together is not a physiological disorder rather than an insect caused problem. No way to know until we open up some of the needles and take a good look see to see what is going on there. You may just be enduring the effects of a disorder that is causing all of this so the pest issue is not directed at you or anyone in particular in British Columbia but was probably more so meant to me and I just shrugged it off as another talk behind my back day at the office. If it is determined that you have nematodes then send me a private message and I'll tell you of a means to deal with them but I want it understood you are to tell no one else. I will take a page right out of Dr. John Radewald's "book", my hero in the field of Nematology, in dealing with nematodes by non chemical means which an article he wrote got him in hot water years ago when he learned of a method to suppress and to some extent control nematodes without using a soil fumigant to do it. Let's hope that I am dead wrong about your tree possibly having nematodes. Let us know what you find out as this big critter pest on the south side of town would like to know. Best regards, Jim
Dear Bob, I would like to know whether you have found a solution to your cedar's problem. I live in Istanbul and have 5 cedars in my garden. 3 years ago, I had exactly the same problem with one of my cedars.( very typical and easy to match from the photo) I thought that it wasn't an major problem at that time but now the tree got worse. I would appreciate if you have succeeded to survive the tree. Thanks and regards Nejat
