Maple identity needed if possible

Discussion in 'Maples' started by chimera, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    These are young trees, so not sure of mature size, etc. Any help appreciated.
     

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  2. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Pics are from May.
     
  3. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    my "First ghost"is similar !
     
  4. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    To the middle pic?
     
  5. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Reticulatum purpureum for me
     
  6. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Alex66, Can't find any specific information on reticulatum purpureum, are you meaning a group of reticulated plants ? I Should have been clear about that when posted.Do not see the resemblance to 'First Ghost'. Maybe you could explain a little more. Thank you
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
  7. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Some acer palmatum have reticulated leaves for example "Como" "Peach and Cream" "First Ghost" etc.. quote to Maple for the Gardens Timber Press D.M.van Gelderen and C.J. van Gelderen :acer palmatum Reticulatum probable synonyms palmatum Shigitatsu, Shigitatsu sawa .A shrub 4-5 m (13-16 feet)high and about as wide leaves seven lobeb green with white reticulations on the main veins origin japanese but named by Edouard Francois Andre France
     
  8. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Alex66, Thank you for explaining that, still wondering which cultivars these would be in the reticulatum purpureum group.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2007
  9. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    "reticulatum purple" not group but cultivar !if you visit wwwesveld.nl you see this beautiful cultivar and ++++much more!!!regards alex66
     
  10. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Not sure of any similarities, would need to see them side by side, i guess. My pics are from May. Thank you again for your interest.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  11. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    Your maples is closest to being the plant called 'Ariadne'
     
  12. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The pink serrated leaves are indeed very like Ariadne. However the pale green leaf is not anything like I have seen on my own plant. That is not to say, of course, that it isn't, as leaf colour can vary enormously from year to year, and certainly from climate to climate
    It certainly seems, in any event, to be a good call Galt
    These are the leaf colour and shape on my own plant
    http://www.fujiyamagarden.com/Ariadne.html
     
  13. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    Being a seedling selection, Ariadne is highly variable in its characteristics depending on culture. This plant can give us many different reads from year to year and season to season--especially when it is not yet mature.

    Here are some photos of Ariadne that can show us how light or lack there of will bring up the green color in the leaf.
     

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  14. whis4ey

    whis4ey Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I think I have just been convinced :)
     
  15. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ok for me Galt bravo!!!
     
  16. yweride

    yweride Active Member 10 Years

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    I would say 'Ariadne', or a seedling thereof.
     
  17. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    OK, could be 'Ariadne' type or seedling thereof, and i'll try to find out about the plants' changes throughout the year, only seen it one day. it's amazing the changes 'Ariadne' goes through. Got the Vertrees last edition from the library today and a pic shows a similar variegation pattern. Seen 'Ariadne' here , but never at this strongly variegated stage pictured. Thought it might be similar to 'Olsons Frosted Strawberry' at one time, but have only seen pics of it, too. Had a Japanese maple, unnamed, about 15 years ago, that was about 4' tall and didn't have a green leaf on it, only pink or white or a combination thereof. Lost it by using Safer's Soap on the aphids in the spring. Thought maybe it was a sport from 'Karasugawa'. When i went back to the retail nursery, where it was bought, the owner said they had had 3 similar trees, but couldn't remember who it came from. Still wondering if it had a name and would like to grow it. thank you all very much for the help and pics, much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2007
  18. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Enjoyed your site and garden very much, thank you. Maybe you heard me clapping.
     
  19. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    When as possible send another photo, good spring alex66
     
  20. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    The variability with some of these unstable cultivars has me wondering if some of the variation could be attributed to using different rootstalks. suppose one would need to grow a number of the same cultivar on it's own roots and have grafted ones of similar age and growing under the same conditions to observe for a while. Any experience would be nice to know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2007
  21. alex66

    alex66 Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    I read that some nursery grafting in the open field ;the cultivar born whit this method have immediately a fast increase and the characteristic of the mother plant ;another grafting in pot whit common earth like this the plant when is planted in the garden ,have good probality of life, but the original characteristic appear after 2/3years in the favourable conditions (temp., PH,soil,etc..)
    alex
     
  22. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    understand, when you refer to the " mother plant" as being the plant the scion was taken from. generally prefer to have plants on their own roots, to retain the original cultivars characteristics, but of course it is not always possible. Was concerned of highly unstable cultivars losing their original characteristics from being grafted onto vigorous rootstalks over time. Have made some serious mistakes planting grafted ornamental cherries here, in regards to suckering. Maybe this topic should have been started under another thread. Thanks again.
     
  23. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Well, won't expect to have any better suggestions to identity other than those of Galt, yweride, and whis4eys so will try to observe an 'Ariadne' this year, and the pictured plants themselves. whis4ey, the pale green leaf is a different unnamed plant from the other two in the pics. Will check the acidity of the soil ,also, just for interest. thinking it may be relevant. thanks again
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007
  24. M. D. Vaden

    M. D. Vaden Active Member 10 Years

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    Ah...Hah...

    Now I know where to find you !!

    We get around, don't we.
     
  25. Galt

    Galt Active Member

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    Chimera,

    I think you are on the right track with your rootstock ideas. Certainly grafting your plant to a generic green rootstock provides an opportunity to compromise the intensity and reliability of the selected characteristics. Using a seedling a more closely related seedling rootstock (the closer the better) can prove to be a better choice, but we will not always see benefit.

    Being that Ariadne is a seedling selection to begin with, it has been my experience that it will be more likely to respond or change on us with regard to culture, nutrients, etc. Of course variegated and reticulated plants tend to or can be more unstable than our standared selctions.

    I would agree that i have not ever seen the intensity of characteristics on my plant that are shown in the 3rd edition vertrees photo, then again, we are talking about a young plant in my case and I have not see one much older than 5 years in person. For Ariadne we could be talking 7 year or older to stabilize, ideally in the ground, and then we need the right culture on top of that or we risk obscuring the ideal characteristics. I have not found it to be forgiving and I have easily been able to achieve all green leaves relatively quickly in the growing season.
     

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