Manyo no sato - needs surgery

Discussion in 'Maples' started by dicky5ash, May 4, 2022.

  1. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    I bought 2 of these from a non maple specialist on-line retailer. They arrived today..one perfect the other has Pseudomonas syringae by the looks of it.. Took a while to sort with customer services but a replacement is on its way..they don’t want it returned.. what would you do with it?
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Thats a shame R, but a replacement on the way is good. Re the one you have there. I would cut just below the bacterial infection, then apply copper. No good is going to come from keeping anything above. Apply Bordeaux mix paste to the cut end and put it in the shade on it's own. Water as and when and I think next year you will have 3 Manyo no sato's.
     
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  3. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Thanks Derek - there is only one pair of leaves below the diseased section- that was my only worry
     
  4. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Understood R, but looking at your photos, nothing good is going to happen above the infection, so as its basically a free experimental tree, it's worth the try.
     
  5. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Understood - I wondered whether to try the razor blade technique and remove the affected bark
     
  6. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That's always an option R, I just couldn't see from your photo how deep the infection has gone. If you have to cut out a lot, it will weaken that leading branch. It's often surprising when you cut into diseased wood, how deep it has penetrated. But definatly worth a try first of all. If you do, then still go down the copper route.
     
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  7. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Makes perfect sense
     
  8. maf

    maf Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    If it is Pseudomonas most of the damage is done, and the risk of spreading is greatest, when temperatures are around freezing. So, in effect, you have a six month window to clean up the wound and get it healing. I've seen worse wounds than that recover before.
     
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  9. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Worth a go I think..if it was further up or on an isolated branch I’d have cut it off as Derek suggested..but I don’t fancy it’s chances with only a pair of leaves below..so I’ll do surgery on the weekend, nothing to lose!
     
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  10. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    That's what I would do, too.

    So have I.
     
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  11. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Generous Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hope it wasn't Gardening express !!!
     
  12. AlainK

    AlainK Renowned Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I had a very bad experioence with the best-known maple provider here in France.

    I ordered three, and two of them had black spots on the trunk. I didn't worry much, they had such a good reputation, buta week later, the leaves dwindled and died.

    I waited more than a week for their reply (no good), which was something like "no, our trees are perctly healthy" (very bad). Apparently the "boss" himself replied, his French was really poor (he's French), but I had hoped that his ethics was on the level. It wasn't. It isn't. I know small nurseries that will replce a tree if there's a problem. He probably thinks he's too big to bother about it.

    After pestering them on various forums, they sent me 1 tree as a refund, when I had lost 2 - I could save the 1st one.

    Since then, I don't often order trees online, but when I get some, I take pictures of the package, and what's more important, of the tree.

    Like, Acer discolor (but from a serious source) :

    acer-discolor_131003a.jpg Neuman.jpg
     
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  13. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    The replacement tree arrived the trunk is very weirdly damaged as if it has been chewed by a rodent..50mm at the base upwards..only a narrow 6mill strip of green outer cambium left..it is doomed - back on the customer service chat Bot - I sincerely wish I’d never come across this lot!
     

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  14. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    I sent them photos - the customer service operator insisted superficial damage - would not accept the tree is doomed - you have to return the plant at your own expense which is not cost effective - I shall never buy anything from a non - JM specialist again!
     
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  15. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That is such a shame R. I agree it has been gnawed by a rodent. It 'might' survive, but it is 50/50. Gardening Express should replace. But if they don't, then I think it's time to say 'buyer beware' of this company.
     
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  16. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    I’d say better chances with the other one - as there is only 6mm of green cambium left on the trunk, all the rest gnawed off
     
  17. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Tbh R, if you see trees that have been layered, then there is just a slightest bit of bark to send nutrients and water to the tree and they grow well every year. So perhaps, just perhaps, it might surprise you. My fingers are crossed for you.
     
  18. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Thanks Derek
     
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  19. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Yikes, that's a seller (I won't qualify them as a nursery) to avoid!

    So, did you do the surgery? I also would have avoided the big cut, I think there's a decent chance of recovery, though getting going again will take a while. Honestly not sure I would have even done the surgery on the bark, just stop it with copper and let it close naturally. FWIW, unless a pseudomonas wound is weepy, (which is rare), the infection should be restricted to the cambium and hence close to the surface.

    @AlainK Name and shame! Could it be a certain guy in a swimsuit?? :P
     
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  20. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Thanks for your thoughts..I haven’t undertaken surgery yet..I need to get some Bordeaux mix..so if I understand you correctly..you wouldn’t remove any of the dark bark or grey or open grey wound on the 1st tree in the 1st photo?

    In relation to the second tree in the last 2 photos..I was planning on only using Bordeaux mix as that one looks different more like rodent damage..

    I must say getting one poorly tree then the replacement in a poor state is REALLY poor in my book..was extremely disappointing..then to be told the wounds are superficial..made me feel more than irritated!
     
  21. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    So, in the first 2 pics the grey/light part in the interior: the infection is dead and inactive. The light gray bark is dead bark that has been killed by the infection. The reddish/black ring around this area is the active infection. And I don't think it looks very active, so I would treat it rather than taking the additional risk of surgery. I think the infected spot covers a small enough arc that the tree is in with a good chance if you stop it now.

    The second tree has obvious mechanical damage, it's hard for me to judge the extent from the photo because I really tell if the stripped areas have regenerated. Judging from the lip would I can see at the edges of some of the areas, I'd say not. None the less there may be enough bark left that over the course of the next several years it will turn into a viable tree. For sure not a candidate for surgery.

    Which is all to say, no way should either of these have been shipped. It's clear that no one is paying any attention at all to what is going out. The customer service... well that's pretty shocking.

    I've had a lot of pretty iffy experiences with some big specialty maple nurseries, one in particular is infamous for shipping the wrong cultivars. So, they are relatively honest, and when you send them a photo they will typically replace it. I ordered an A. circinatum 'Monroe' one year, and they sent me a 'Morton'. No problem, we will replace it! Another 'Morton'. Uh, let's wait until things are in leaf, so we can be sure? OK. Another 'Morton'. So after 3 years of trying, 3 'Morton' and no 'Monroe'. I gave up. The problem of course is when you can't tell immediately: I have several large trees that are clearly not what it said on the tin, 15 years ago... and of course these I didn't get refunded for.
     
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  22. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Generous Contributor

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    Understood, that’s clear.. many thanks Emery. Re receiving three A. C. Mortons..blimey their picker or labeller must have worse sight than me! It makes you wonder whether they ever had A.C. Monroe..Shocker! God luck to us all..what a shambles..it’s not as if we are ordering micro electronic circuitry components!

    In other news I shall post a photo of a new “Acer buddy” in that thread I started..I picked it up in a nursery in a dormant state in December - was a real bargain - Cercis canadensis Forest Pansy
     
  23. Cattwooduk

    Cattwooduk Well-Known Member

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    I bought a Amagi Shigure from Gardening Express about 4 years ago and it was haggard and sickly within a few months of getting it. I had to cut it back all the way down to a single bud above the graft and it has survived, but still only produces seriously weak growth.

    In 2020 I made the awful mistake of ordering 2 more trees from them - Manyo No Sato, and a Tsuma Gaki.
    The Tsuma gaki was fine and has continued to grow very well and it nice and healthy.
    The Manyo no sato was basically dead on arrival. No matter the pictures I sent and discussed with the customer services they would NOT accept the plant was a goner before they even sent it... told me to plant it out and by next year it would be fine.
    Like you say, they would only refund if I returned the plant which would have been half the cost of the plant to begin with! Decided to just write off the loss and avoid gardening express in future. Awful plants with awful customer service.
     

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