Photos taken 02/21/05 in the misses yard. The history of this one is in doubt. I learned this Magnolia to be Mr. Toichi Domoto's plant and he did not deny it. Affectionately called Lilliput by those of us that have owned this Magnolia.
Identification suspect. The purple flush should be mostly near the base, the flowers and plant more petite. Introduced in Alabama, 1946 or earlier.
This one has its heritage right back to Toichi. From Toichi to Don Kleim to me. The only reason I mentioned the history may be in doubt was because of what is written in the Magnolia Society about this Magnolia. I believe them to be wrong about this one and I am not alone in feeling that way. If Don Kleim ever said the plant was developed by someone, it was! Jim
Introduced by Semmes nurseries. Said by them to be "similar in every way" to 'Late Soulangeana', which was thought to have come from England.
You are thinking a completely different form, the form that looks like a mini standard soulangiana that will fade to white with pink in the base and with a pink stripe. I've grown it also. Now, tell me the name of it as it was in the nursery trade? I showed you what the true form of Lilliputian looks like. This is where book knowledge clashes with acquired knowledge and the books and one Society are wrong on this one. Roger Gossler's father did have this Magnolia years ago in their sale catalog and I know who he got it from. Jim
Hi Ron: It is going to be unfair for anyone to come back at me too much on the Magnolia topic. There are people still around that know me and my association with Mr. Don Kleim. There were two Jim's that ran around with Don through the years, a Jim R., who is a known Conifer and native shrub expert whom specializes in landscape design and Jim S., the "state" guy as referred to by Don to others (California and Oregon). I am the Jim S. There are a few well known arboretums and renown gardens that got many to almost all of their Magnolias from Don starting back in the late 40's. If you do not mind the travel you can see this Magnolia and read the nameplate at Strybing. It has been there a long while. No, Lilliputian was indeed Toichi Domoto's Magnolia. The parent plant still resides in Hayward, California. You have picked up on how weather can influence the coloring of our Magnolias here. With good rain years, above normal rainfall, we do see better than average color in some of our Magnolias than in other years. Typical years means it rains here when the Magnolias are in bloom. This year the rains came before most of the Mags bloomed. Also, with overcast conditions we get to see the Magnolias develop better than usual. By that it means the colors will start out normal but they will hold their intermediate color much better and it is the intermediate coloring that you see from my pics that has you slightly confused with Iolanthe and this one. Normally, they will fade to a lighter shade of pink than what are shown in my crude digital photos of them. The Semmes form differs in the amount of pink in the base and the shade of pink as the one is more of a light pink whereas the other is more of a purple-pink (Lilliputian). The Semmes form in most years will start out a light pink on the backside of the tepal and fade to an off white with a noticeable light shaded rose-pink stripe in the middle of the backside of the tepal. Lilliputian can also fade to a lighter color but if there is a stripe it is always a purplish rose color, much darker stripe than the Semmes form. Lilliputian always has a richer pink flush in the base than the Semmes form. The flowers in size are similar but Lilliputian's are a little larger, longer tepals and when the flower opens up Lilliputian's flowers will hold much longer as when the Semmes form flowers start to open up the tepals will be sloughed off soon here. The Semmes form never sets as many buds as Lilliputian will. One is a moderate to slight "bloomer" (bud setter) and the other is without question a profuse bloomer year in and year out. I know that only handful of people have ever seen this Magnolia as it was held out of people's hands here in the US for almost 30 years. The guys in Mississippi and the rest of the South never saw this Magnolia until they came out here and then it was off limits to them. Sir Harold Hillier in England did have this Magnolia in his collection. Only very and I do mean very select people ever had access to Lilliputian until Don started to offer it to what he felt were upstanding wholesale nurseries back in 1984, back in the late 50's in Japan. The only retail nurseries that I know of that were allowed to have this plant was Orchard Nursery in Lafayette and Berkeley Horticultural Nursery. Saratoga Horticultural Foundation got their original plant from Toichi. Jim
Ron, you are mising something here with the translation. Toichi's Lilliputian was around before the Semmes form was. The Semmes form came afterwards and then notice where the Magnolia Society is referencing the nursery that carried it. It is no different than a Maple book author stating that a Maple name can be traced to a nursery catalog in Japan that carried it but the name of the actual source of the Maple is conspicuously absent. Find the name of the Semmes plant in the nursery trade and the puzzle will all fall into place for you. You are "playing" with me now and now you will have to earn the right to know what that name is from me. I've seen it, you haven't. I've grown it and you haven't. Now we play the game Don Kleim style. Good luck with the Magnolia Society with that one but there are a couple of people in the Society that know that Magnolia but will they risk bucking the system in order to tell you? Jim
Jim, I'm just trying to find out what the facts are. If the reported history of 'Lilliputian' is in error, I want to know how.
Ron, I know and I was a little out of line but there are issues between here and elsewhere that have led to some hard feelings in the past over who developed what and when. The plant purists out here did much of the work and others elsewhere took credit for it or the ripped off wood from private gardens, recognized gardens and from Arborteums and then named the plant which really sent some people into orbit here. Saratoga Hort knows all about it as they had similar things happen to them also. Even today the plant sources have not been properly cited, named or accounted for. Off limits meant that no one in a respective area got their hands on a particular plant. Call it a plant "fatwa" if you will. It was amazing the extent of which, if a plant was not to go to someone or somewhere, it did not for several years. Jim
