We have a problem with one Magnolia grandiflora. It's a 28 year old tree and has been doing wonderfully well until last year . Then the new growth curled up and turned black along the leaf margins, eventully droping off. This was repeated this spring. There seemed to be no sign of insects or mould, so I had the plant and soil tested. No problems with nutrients. The other M. grandiflora, including 'Little Gem' are not effected. Searrching yoelded nothing. Most references say the plant has no problems. So, I can use some advice, hopefully from someone that has experienced the problem. Sorry, no pictures. I didn't know abouy this forum in the spring, and all the effected leaves are gone now.
To track down the disease without any photos you are going to have to work with me. What were the weather conditions like when you first saw that the new growth was being affected? Was it balmy and humid, cold and humid, typical Spring weather with some humidity etc..? Do you remember a period of a cool rain followed by some warm weather and then a period of some cooling with a lot of moisture in the air? Where was the new growth affected on the tree, was it restricted to just the top of the tree, only in the areas that get the most sun, get the most shade or was all of the new growth affected allover the tree? 'Little Gem' has dark green colored leaves, is your Magnolia in question a light green colored leaf in comparison? Tell me if this seems close to what happened. The newest growth emerges and quickly became disfigured, golden brown blotches of deterioration occurred in the interior of most of the leaves but not all of them, then the leaves shriveled up but stayed on the tree for a few days and then turned black in color and fell off of the tree? Jim
No. Both the 2004 and the 2005 springs were normal. All over the tree I guess. It's so big I can't see the top too well. The new growth around the bottom was certainly effected. Leaf color is quite similar to 'Little Gem', but the normal leaves are quite a bit larger. Not entirely. The disfigurement does happen quickly. The new leaves get to be about 5 inches long, but curled end-to-end and also side-to-side. There were no noticable golden brown blotches in the interior, but I didn't examine every leaf and I might not have noticed them as well. The leaves stayed on the tree for nearly a month. Only the margins turned black or dark brown. Then they fell. Most still had some green in the center, but a yellow sickly green. Thanks for helping. I know it's very hard without a leaf sample or at least a picture. It's probably important that it's done this for at least two seasons, perhaps more. Ray
I know it's very hard without a leaf sample or at least a picture. What I need to know is what you saw with the symptoms. Information on diseases of Magnolias is very vague. Lots of leaf diseases is commonly mentioned but then little mention is made of any of them specifically aside from Bacterial Leaf Spot. I've seen Anthracnose damage on Magnolias that others have not seen or did not pick up on as they saw or were seeing the effects of it as it was hitting the tree. Tell me what a normal Spring is for you for temps, humidity and for weather? After the new growth fell of the tree was there any new growth to appear later in the year or was the ends of the tips fried to the point that no new growth did appear and has not generated any new growth since? This may not have much meaning to people but it does tell a lot. 2 years ago my Pears got hit with Fireblight in April. We normally do not get hit with Fireblight on Pears and Cherries until August. Jim
Spring in piedmont NC usually has a fair amount of rain, but we had a shortage this spring. Temperatures run from 40F in the morning to 75F in the afternoon. Humidity is always high in the piedmont even in the winter and unbearable in summer. This hasn't bothered the other Magnolia grandiflora here for over 20 years. No new growth appeared immediately after the initial, deformed leaves dropped. However, there is new growth now that looks normal. The most advanced has leaves that are 8 inches long, still light green. Overall, there is only maybe 20% as much as the earlier deformed flush. It's difficult to tell if the current new growth is eminating from the same tips as the earlier growth. However. the tips of all branches seems to be normal. Ray
If you are getting new growth to emerge from the areas in which the leaves in the Spring were affected and later dropped off, then you more than likely had a fungus problem rather than a bacterial one. If a blast form of bacteria were to hit the tips, no new regeneration of leaves would be seen for some time, if ever as in the case of Fireblight. A leaf spot disease may very well only affect the Spring growth but you should see it affect some of the older leaves as well causing them to discolor and fall off the tree also. We do not have to know what the pathogen is if it is a fungus as that you can treat for next Spring with a good old Copper sulfate spray before the tree puts out the new growth. A good way to figure it is spray the fungicide when you can tell the tree has water movement, when the leaves go from being somewhat drooped (nodding, tips of the leaves down) to being turgid again (tips starting to upraise some). That is when I'd spray solely as a preventative spray as a contact spray may be too late to help you. Jim
Thanks. I'll look for the rising leaf tips next spring and give it a prentative spray or two. Great to be able to get help from someone who knows that Magnolia grandiflora can have enemies in spite of the literature. Ray
Let us know if you endure the same condition again next Spring, even after the application of a fungicide spray. Was this a seedling or a cutting grown Magnolia is the question I'll have if this condition persists. I would be more concerned if this tree was a grafted individual. Jim
Jim, The tree was salvaged from a developers site in Wrightsville Beach, NC. It was a naturally occuring seedling about 3 feet tall. That was in October 1978 and it has been growing here ever since. I've only noticed the deformed new growth in the last 2 years.
Problem solved. I applied 'Messenger' just before the new leaves began to grow. No leaf disfiguration this year. We'll see how it behaves in 2007.
OK. The leaves have emerged for the spring of 2007. Once again I applied Messenger prior to emergence. The leaves are normal again this year showing no disfiguration. I know some experts debunk the effectivness of Messenger, but it certainly cured the problem here. It also has saved several Rhododendron suffering from root-rot, as well as a Taxus brownii. I think some "experts" are wrong.
One thing we do not do is tell someone they were wrong to use a helper spray if the EPA approved chemical works for us. People that are not growing the plant or have not grown the plant have not learned when to keep their fingers away from the keyboard, as much of the time the growing issue is a concern for someone else's plant. Inasmuch as we would prefer not to use a helper spray for plants some of us are in areas that we may have to spray our plants with a preventative spray as a precaution. What we can see of our plants later when we did not use a fungicide or a regulator spray as opposed to what we will see when we have used a helper spray tells the whole story but too many people have not had to deal with the condition or have not seen the effects of the disease to know. People can make boasts of what not to do for a variety of reasons or in their own way condemn or chastise others for using a helper spray but the one constant that does not change is the plant in question is not theirs. Thanks for keeping us apprised of your tree. Jim
If you apply a product or use another method without a control group (set of untreated plants) you really haven't demonstrated a result - there is nothing to compare to. Maybe the problem improved on its own, independent of the treatment. If they were all treated, you can't really tell - especially if the 'test group' was tiny. Spraying 50 or 100 plants from the same block, with an equally large group not being sprayed is the kind of approach that may begin to reveal a significant pattern.
I believe Rose growers in the Northeast have been using this garden product on Roses for a while. In this case a control plot was not needed as the result that was attained was what the owner of the tree was wanting. The same type control that the Rose growers are seeking and apparently are getting also. The control groups were done during testing of this product and I believe Cornell University or through the New York Cooperative Extension were involved with some of the testing, probably on a wide range of plants. For two years a known condition has not shown itself after using the product as a timed application, preventative spray. There is no need to go out and find another Magnolia with the same issue. The problem or what was thought as being one has been suppressed to the point that the owner now no longer sees the symptoms of disease that was seen two years ago prior to the implementation of the topical sprays. Jim
I didn't suggest that anyone should use Messenger. I simply reported the facts here. I didn't imply that I ran a scientific test with controls, etc. I simply reported the results here. I find it hard to believe that some other agent cured my plants or that they just got better by tnemselves. To be sure, I don't have proof of that even though some untreated Rhododendron of the same kind did die when left untreated. Based on the results here, I cannot believe Messenger is not a reasonable cure for some aflictions as implied by some experts. On the other hand, it is not a miricle cure either. Some of my plants did not respond to it and they died.
Thank you for addressing this issue, I think it is the same problem I'm having with my Magnolia. I've only recently moved into this house with an established Magnolia in the front yard, so the only information I have about it is what I’ve gathered from the neighbors. They let me know the previous owners brought it with them from Louisiana, that it is only a few years old, it grew taller and faster than anyone expected, and it has always had these curled leaves. I don’t know anything about Magnolia’s but the leaves just don’t seem healthy to me, so I’ve been searching for months on the cause. I’ll put up some pictures of the leaves. If it turns out that this treatment might assist my magnolia as well, I realize I have to wait until next year as it is already producing new growth. My question is about the morning doves that live in its branches. Will this treatment endanger them at all?
It's not too late to use Messenger. The best time is when the new groth is starting. Messenger is a natural plant hormone and does not effect animal life at all. You don't need to saturate the new leaves, just sprinkle them with the Messenger solution. By the way, my Magnolia has not had the deformed new growth at all since I first used Messenger on it. Ray
Never purchase and apply garden chemicals without identifying with certainty the problem first. Texas Cooperative Extension may be able to tell you what, if anything is abnormal about your tree. This would be expected to involve supplying them with samples of leaves that seem diseased. http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/Myths/Harpin.pdf
