I've keyed out several trees as Western Larches (Portland, Oregon area) and had begun to think I knew how to tell a Larch when I saw it - needles in clumps on short stems, droopy leaders. Then I discovered that, although not native to our area, there are many "true" cedars around, in particular Deodar Cedar, and they look very much like the larches I've seen. My books offer no help distinguishing the two, since they simply say that Cedars aren't native to the area. They may not be native, but they are around in abundance! Can anyone give me clues as to how to tell these trees apart? Do you know a site that provides guidance? Thanks for your help!
Cedrus sp. have evergreen needles of heavier substance and deeper coloring than the delicate, ephemeral (deciduous) leaves of larches, as well as distinctive, massive, barrel-like cones. All normal (non-weeping) larches I have seen had erect leaders, whereas some true cedars do and some don't. The cones of larches are often much smaller than those of Cedrus sp., not so dense and heavy. Nor do they shatter upon reaching maturity.
Until then, larches have soft, light green leaves; cedars have hard, somewhat prickly, dark green to blue-green leaves If there are any cones on, cones less than 3 cm broad are larch, more than 4 cm broad are cedar Edit: just noticed . . . That means Deodar Cedar (Cedrus deodara). It is the only one of either genus with a drooping leader (weeping cultivars discounted)
Pete, post some photos then we might be able to figure out what you are seeing. Keep in mind that there are some forms of Cedrus libani that were planted in the early to mid 80's in and around Portland that have needle bundles that can fool people into believing they are Larch instead. I agree that Larch have much finer needles but looking from a distance the needle bundles of some forms of Cedrus libani and especially Cedrus brevifolia will look more like a Larch than a Deodar Cedar will. Jim
Larch and Cedars are nothing alike. It's like asking someone to compare apples to oranges. Larch needles are very soft as others have said. The overal look of the tree tends to resemble a fir tree which isn't anything like that of a Deodora.
I'm attaching two photos of a tree that is about 30 miles south of San Jose, California. It was clearly planted - this is an RV park, not a forest. I originally concluded that it was a Western Larch. There are no cones present on the tree or on the ground. I've checked the tree fairly carefully with binoculars looking for one. After reading the responses above, I'm thinking it is a Deodar Cedar. As to "its like comparing Apples to Oranges", all of us who have seen and identified both Oranges and Apples (Delicious? Pippin? Gravenstein?), the differences are clear, but if you've only seen a couple of examples without clear knowledge of which they were, it isn't so easy! Maybe you've only seen different kinds of apples!
Here's a few Larch pics. The needles are very soft unlike those from a Deodora. Deodora: http://www.fototime.com/7AD741A9DB5C6AC/standard.jpg
I am not trying to be cute but our Deodar Cedars can look different here than in Oregon and Washington. We can see quite a variance in shape and even coloring from one area to another, so comparing Deodar Apples to Deodar Oranges can apply just with this tree grown near San Jose and one grown in Fresno for example. A lot will depend on where the seedlings were grown initially as the seedlings from Oregon nurseries tend to cascade more than some of our seedlings will, which tend to be more upright and slightly more pyramidal. Then there is a form of Blue Atlas that was selected out close by in Hayward that can look like the shape that this tree does. None of our Larch in the inland coastal areas and the San Joaquin Valley are native. We do not see a lot of cones either on both the Larch and Deodar Cedars here. So, Pete, you did just fine and keep on asking these types of brainteasers to yourself and to us if need be. I get fooled down here on some of the Conifers I thought I knew pretty well myself! Jim
Deodars growing together in same planting can have a variety of growth habits, you don't have to leave a region to see that. Seattle has many of them, including freeway plantings where you can see such variation in close proximity.
How many Deodar's look like this one in Seattle for shape and color was my point and then I'll say, okay, show me a few of them, in advance of my next response. It is not like I said there weren't any in Seattle in this shape and color but I will say this tree is not the norm for shape and color in Seattle, in Portland or in Fresno either until I know different. It seems this tree has not been established yet by you or anyone so far that this tree is in fact a Deodar Cedar has it? Jim
Jim, You asked (I think) if the tree I posted pictures of has been identified as a deodar cedar. Certainly not by me, as I'm definitely not qualified. Someone (awk! I can't look back at the messages while I'm typing the post) said "Definitely Cedrus", but no one said "Definitely Deodar". For my part, just realizing it was a cedar has helped me a great deal, and I've found and looked hard at several others that were definitely planted in the Gilroy area. I much appreciate all the responses! Pete
Pardon this intrusion - Pete and others, when you reply to a thread all the posts are below the text box, ordered with the most recent at the top. If you need to refer to posts in the thread while writing a reply, just scroll down.
Summerlong vernal green of larches really stands out among other conifers. Dawn redwood and baldcypress are similarly colored. In the hand the leaves of these are all markedly less firm than those of evergreen conifers.
