Identification: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late sea

Discussion in 'Ornamental Cherries' started by wcutler, Apr 14, 2007.

  1. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Mostly Pink Perfection - Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Here are some more photos of the Pink Perfections that are number 3 in Mariko's posting, showing vexillate filaments, four(?) phylloid pistils, and serrated sepals, all characteristics of Pink Perfection but generally not of Kanzan. I find the deep pink things in the centre curious.

    There are 8 of these trees either single or in pairs in various places in the forward and back courtyard at 1500 Howe; the ones in back are on a walkway from the Stone Grill restaurant up to Beach Ave. I think one of the trees might be a Kanzan but probably was not supposed to be. I'm including shots similar to Mariko's for comparison with the one I think is a Kanzan.
    20080430_HowePacific_PP_Cutler_5289r.jpg 20080430_HowePacific_PP_Cutler_5292r.jpg 20080430_HowePacific_PP_Cutler_5283cr.jpg 20080430_HowePacific_PP_Cutler_5274r.jpg

    Here's the one I think is the Kanzan. The blossom colour is different and the leaves are more bronze-coloured. You can see the Pink Perfection in the background.
    20080430_HowePacific_Kanzan_Cutler_5300r.jpg 20080430_HowePacific_Kanzan_Cutler_5302r.jpg
     
  2. Anne Carten

    Anne Carten Member VCBF Cherry Scout

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    Kanzan Cherry Blosoms at Elsie Roy Elementary School Grade 1 class

    There is a beautiful stand of hot pink Kanzan Cherry trees in the hall of Elsie Roy Elementary School in Yaletown, created by the grade one class.
     

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  3. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Here is a Shogetsu and a Not-a-Ukon, the one (actually one of five!) in Stanley Park, in which I think I see a vexillate filament.
    20080501_NelsonChilco_Shogetsu_Cutler_5514r.jpg 20080501_StanleyPk_NotaUkon_Cutler_5471r.jpg
     
  4. Douglas Justice

    Douglas Justice Active Member UBC Botanical Garden Forums Administrator Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Your "not a Ukon" shows structures that are clearly half-way between vexillate filaments and staminodes. Beautiful! In Germany, there's probably a specific term for these.

    I know I'm backing up quite a ways, but I wanted to address the variation we see in 'Kanzan' trees in Vancouver. Wendy's post of several days ago (#46 of this thread) shows three examples. Left to right, they are: 1. young tree (never pruned) planted in sandy, infertile soil; 2. old tree, probably intermittently pruned (crown-raised) and truck pruned; 3. a pair of medium-aged trees in deep, rich soil, pruned by severe heading cuts at least once.

    Pruning has a number of effects on trees. On 'Kanzan', which is normally an extremely vigorous, disease resistant cultivar, the primary effect is simple regrowth. Thinning cuts (as performed by city workers) tend to promote in-filling by strong, upright, but crowded shoots. Removal of lateral branches to reduce crowding (and increase air circulation) leads to long (weak), lion-tail branches and ultimately an umbrella shaped canopy.

    Heading cuts promote vigorous lateral growth. Normally, this kind of pruning is executed by cretins, psychopaths and saw-happy ignoramuses who mistakenly believe that they can control the height of a tree through pruning. The result of heading cuts is stumpy, inelegant lower branches and a proliferation of strongly upright, spreading upper branches. You can see the crooks in the crowns of the two trees pictured, but really, you can find similarly injured 'Kanzan' trees in almost any neighbourhood in Metro Vancouver. Just down the street from me in Hamilton (east Richmond), there are several townhouse developments where the trees have been pruned to a point that makes me either cringe or laugh, depending on my mood.

    Prunus avium (mazzard) understock tends to become infected (or does it come already infected?) with Pseudomonas syringae (bacterial canker), and repeated pruning of either understock or scion tends to promote the spread of the disease. Most other cherries don't survive or at least look as good when exposed to this pathogen. Nor can they tolerate the sort of butchery that is normally afflicted upon 'Kanzan' (hence the popularity of this cultivar).

    I'm not a big fan of 'Kanzan', primarily because of its over-the-top floral exuberance (one of the scouts calls it the Barbara Cartland cherry), but one has to admire its strength and adaptability. However, if I have to look at 'Kanzan', please let it be one that's unpruned.
     
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  5. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    On the left is a Shirofugen. I think the left-most stamen has a filament that's vexillate, and also the bottom left one. On the right is an Avium Plena, and I think the upper left stamen has a vexillate filament. Ric Spratley took the Plena photo for me.
    20080506_BeachThurlow_Shirofugen_Cutler_5733r.jpg 20080507_Plena_Spratley_2808r.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  6. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Back to Kanzan vs Pink Perfection. Now that the Kanzans have been out for a couple of weeks, it's getting harder to tell what's a Pink Perfection again, for those of us not so accustomed to paying attention to all the details. The tree shape of younger trees doesn't speak to me yet. The Kanzan blossoms are fading to the overall colour of Pink Perfections and the leaves are losing their bronze hue and are taking on their summer green colour. Here's an example of Kanzans that have the Pink Perfection absence of blue in their colour and the tree in the back seems to have the Pink Perfection shape, but they don't have any vexillate filaments and they don't have any serrations on the sepals. And the colour has an overall faded quality. I don't think I checked out the tree in the back, so I shouldn't make any comments about that one.
    20080506_PenderBurrrard_Kanzan_Cutler_5670cr.jpg 20080506_PenderBurrrard_Kanzan_Cutler_5671cr.jpg

    The Pink Perfections that Mariko found near the Stone Grill, however, seem to be darkening the way that Shirofugens do, their blossoms bleeding deep pink from the centres. Almost all the stamens have vexillate filaments and almost every flower has some serrations on the sepals.
    20080506_HoweBeach_PP_Cutler_5673r.jpg 20080506_HoweBeach_PP_Cutler_5693cr.jpg 20080506_HoweBeach_PP_Cutler_5687cr.jpg
    20080506_HoweBeach_PP_Cutler_5704cr.jpg 20080506_HoweBeach_PP_Cutler_5686cr.jpg
     
  7. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I'm adding two more photos of Pink Perfection flowers, from a different set of trees (Terminal and Quebec, in an apparent parking lot with no cars). I don't think I've seen Kanzan sepals curl up like this. And there's so much stuff in the centre of that flower, it could be the subject of a whole biology class. Do those red things have a name?
     

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  8. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Now I have two vexillate filaments, or maybe they're those unnamed things, on Kanzans. This is just a trunk photo so I'd know what group of trees the photos are from. It's clearly not Pink Perfection.
    20080516_42ndYukon_Kanzan_Cutler_6530r.jpg

    I think these are from two different trees, and it's two views of each blossom. On the second set, the filament is PURPLE. Is that what I was supposed to be looking for? Kuitert doesn't say the purple filaments have to be vexillate.
    20080516_42ndYukon_Kanzan_Cutler_6569cr.jpg 20080516_42ndYukon_Kanzan_Cutler_6575cr.jpg 20080516_42ndYukon_Kanzan_Cutler_6547cr.jpg 20080516_42ndYukon_Kanzan_Cutler_6548cr.jpg
    Those sepals do seem to look serrated, but they're not supposed to. It's still not a Pink Perfection.
     
  9. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I have a better zoom this year, so thought I'd get a shot of the first blossoms open from the first tree we recognized as Pink Perfection - the one that lead Douglas to say in 2007 "now we're getting somewhere", in posting 6 in this thread. Now even I can see the vexillate filaments. I mentioned elsewhere that with the vexillate filaments, it's not like looking for a staminode on an Akebono (can be hard to find one); with these, just about every stamen has the little flags.

    The closer tree is the Pink Perfection, the other street tree a Kanzan. These blossoms are all from the Pink Perfection.
    20090418_DavieBroughton_PP_Cutler_DSC02118.jpg 20090418_DavieBroughton_PP_Cutler_DSC02127ps.jpg 20090418_DavieBroughton_PP_Cutler_DSC02133ps.jpg 20090418_DavieBroughton_PP_Cutler_DSC02135ps.jpg
    This looks like a small tree, but I remember that there were no blossoms within arm's length two years ago and that's still the case.

    These Kanzan blossoms for comparison are from a young tree up the block that's only a bit larger than the Pink Perfection, but with sturdier, longer branches.
    20090418_DavieBroughton_Kanzan_Cutler_DSC02138.jpg 20090418_DavieBroughton_Kanzan_Cutler_DSC02140.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  10. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Well, gosh, right after I post something saying how totally clear it all is, don't I just go and find a Kanzan with what look to me like a whole bunch of vexillate filaments. The tree is just coming into bloom - this might have been the only really open flower on it. I know, now I have to catch these two blossoms on their way out, and demonstrate that on the Pink Perfection the filaments turned purple but not on the Kanzan. Right. I'll just drag a ladder over and tag those two blossoms.
     

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  11. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I moved 8 postings to a new thread: What cherry? Late double pinky-white, short stems. They seemed to be about the same kind of tree, and not about Kanzan or Pink Perfection.
     
  12. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    These are the pictures of kanzans and Pink perfections from Queen Elizabeth Park. (taken on May 6,2009)
    They are taken inside the room in the evening, so colors are not so good.
    But still you can see the difference. (I hope)
    Flowers look very similar, but Pink Perfection has more petals.
    20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 002.jpg 20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 003.jpg
    20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 008.jpg 20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 006.jpg
    20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 015.jpg 20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 017.jpg
    20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 001.jpg 20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 009.jpg
    20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 012.jpg 20090506_QEPark_KanzanVS.PinkPerfection_Izaki 021.jpg
     
  13. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Kuitert (Japanese Flowering Cherries)talks about those red things when he describes chrysanthemum-flowered cherries, calling them second-story flowers:
    "A week or so after the main flower has opened, the second-story flower shows itself in bud stage as a dark pink heart inside the light pink petals of the main flower."
    I don't think Pink Perfection is really considered a chrysanthemum-flowered cultivar, but it seems that it has this going on anyway on some of the blossoms.
     
  14. eteinindia

    eteinindia Active Member VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Wendy, I don't think they are 'second-story'. Because the dark pink part of Pink Perfection dosen't open later as far as I saw. 'Second-story' is called 'kiku-zaki'(chrysanthemum-blooming) in Japanese. It more similar to the center flower in the picture I posted last year. But in chrysanthemum-flowered cherries it stays longer and opens later.
    (★ I haven't check the tree on the picture well, but this year it seemed to bloom almost together with other Kanzan. So it is Kanzan, I think)
     
  15. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Mariko, here are three flowers with deep pink centres are in various stages of development, and I think these are Pink Perfections (three of the twenty or so trees in the grove at SFU), so it seems some of them do open. I don't know whether "second-story" flowers have to be complete with sepals to merit that name and whether that's the case with these. It was really WET out there and I was late for a rehearsal, and anyway, I can't tell a leafy sepal from a phylloid pistil when it's in the middle of a blossom.
     

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  16. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    We don't have any 'Kanzan' leaves or autumn colour, so here are some. I don't know whether the fancy splotching is characteristic, but it's fabulous.
     

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  17. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    Here is the comparison I always wanted - a 'Pink Perfection' with a young 'Kanzan' of about the same size.

    The tree on the left, with the skinny branches, is 'Pink Perfection'. The one on the right-hand photo in all three rows, though it looks different from the surrounding adult 'Kanzan' trees in the colour of the leaves and the flowers, is 'Kanzan', and not just because its tag says so.

    'Pink Perfection' ------- vs-------- 'Kanzan'

    20130416_3rdFir_PinkPerfection_Cutler_P1420436.jpg -- 20130417_3rdBurrard_BothKanzan_Cutler_P1420458.jpg

    20130416_3rdFir_PinkPerfection_Cutler_P1420438.jpg -- 20130417_3rdBurrard_BothKanzan_Cutler_P1420461.jpg

    20130416_3rdFir_KanzanPinkPerfection_Cutler_P1420435.jpg -- 20130417_3rdBurrard_BothKanzan_Cutler_P1420456.jpg 20130417_3rdBurrard_BothKanzan_Cutler_P1420459.jpg
    The 'Kanzan' in the comparisons is in the background in the second photo in the line just above this.
     
  18. wcutler

    wcutler Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout 10 Years

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    Re: Kanzan vs Pink Perfection?? Large showy double pink blossoms, bronze leaves, late

    I have here four young 'Kanzan', which look like a planting of three different type trees, but I think they're not. The tag on one says 2012. I stopped to look at them because the third group stood out spectacularly, young as they are. These are on the east side of Manson Street north of 41st Avenue.

    Here is the group.
    20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan-group-of-4_Cutler_163010c.jpg

    The one closest to 41st has only two flowers left, but lots of petals on the ground, so it does seem to have flowered, but it's way ahead of the others (probably not because it's a few metres south; maybe because it doesn't look all that healthy). This looks like it would be low-grafted.
    20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan1_Cutler_164221c.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan1_Cutler_163027.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan1_Cutler_164236.jpg

    The second tree has light flowers, like most of the 'Kanzan' flowers are getting now that they have been open around two weeks. This looks top-grafted to me.
    20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan2_Cutler_163041.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan2_Cutler_163053.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan2_Cutler_163058.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan2_Cutler_164141.jpg

    It's these last two that I was excited about. From their dark blossom colouring and exceptionally dark leaves, I thought they might even be 'Royal Velvet', but I see in Google street view that they have green leaves. These are both low grafted. On tree 3, you can see 'Kanzan' and rootstock growth at the ground.
    Tree 3
    20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan3_Cutler_163114.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan3_Cutler_163233.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan3_Cutler_163813.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan3_Cutler_163847.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan3_Cutler_163940.jpg

    Tree 4
    20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan4_Cutler_163419.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan4_Cutler_163439.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan4_Cutler_163655.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan4_Cutler_163700.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan4_Cutler_163625.jpg 20150415_5608Manson41st_Kanzan4_Cutler_163634.jpg

    I hope there isn't something new that looks just like 'Kanzan' but with better colouring. We would never be able to distinguish that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015

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