Japanese Maple question

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Cinci5, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. Cinci5

    Cinci5 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    New Jersey
    My daughter recently purchased a new house and a tree on it is a Japanese Maple. The previous owner said it’s 141 yrs old. Is this possible it’s about 50 feet tall.
    It’s in New Jersey.
     

    Attached Files:

    Acerholic and Shin-Deshojo like this.
  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Good evening and welcome to the forum. Regarding your newly acquired tree. Yes it can be very old, but IMO probably not 141 years old.
    To gauge a trees age, then trunk rings are the best way, but for this to be done then the tree has to be cut down. Provenance from house records is probably the best bet.
     
  3. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Hi @Cinci5 , what a magnificent tree.

    In good conditions, Japanese Maples (Acer palmatum) can grow for hundreds of years. Such conditions exist in parts of NJ, well drained slightly acidic soil, nice hot summers with rain and good winters. It is rare to see one this big, but it might be that old; I wouldn't be surprised if it hit the century mark. As D says, there may be records with the house, otherwise an arborist might be able to estimate on-site. I almost thought it was a Silver Maple at first view, until zooming on the leaves!

    One great advantage of such a tree is that the shallow root system offers no problems for foundations, septic or other infrastructure. I suppose that's why it's so rare to see such a giant, it must be very well sheltered to have survived Sandy etc.
     
  4. Cinci5

    Cinci5 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yes very well sheltered near Delaware river across from Philadelphia. I’ll get a shot from street and of leaves. Owner said something about some club wanting to put in on registry but he said no. They originally wanted to cut it down but now no. Right in way for driveway placement.
     
    0soyoung likes this.
  5. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    @Cinci5 good afternoon, trees of a certain age here in England often have a TPO (tree preservation order) placed on them and these are kept at the local authority offices. If your daughters maple does in the end dated at 141 years old, then I would think a similar registration would have been made in the past 50 years. So what I'm saying is that a local club can be refused, but the local authority have more power to place an order on a tree. So it is the New Jersey Council offices that may have the date it was placed. The house also does not look 141 years old, so the tree may well have been in the planning applications for the house that is currently there.
    A beautiful specimen btw. I like it a lot.
     
  6. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    It really is, and a rare one. I'm really glad to hear they are no longer thinking of taking it down. With regards to the club, I don't imagine letting them register and visit the tree would be very intrusive, and it would provide them with a lot of pleasure to see it.

    Whether a TPO order can be placed for a tree on private property in the US depends on local town zoning regulations, but it is a fairly uncommon operation; generally a laissez faire attitude is preferred (as indeed, it is here in France).

    I'd love to see some pictures of the leaves, that would allow us to determine the species with better certainty.
     
  7. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Yes I'm unaware of US laws E, but over here if a tree is regarded as needing protection, then a TPO can be placed.
    Agree it would be great to see a close up of the leaves. Let's hope @Cinci5 can oblige. A really interesting thread.
     
  8. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    Rather civilized IMO. But then, I supposed keeping a concealed assault weapon on your person is also discouraged in most of the UK! Lol, with apologies, don't mean to let politics slide its sinuous shape into the conversation! :)
     
  9. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    All too easy E !!! No apology needed.
     
  10. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,212
    Likes Received:
    2,361
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    A closer photo of the leaves would help.

    And what's a "TPO" ?...
     
  11. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Tree preservation order.
     
    AlainK likes this.
  12. Margot

    Margot Generous Contributor 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    975
    Location:
    Nanoose Bay, BC Canada
    The age of a tree can also be determined by use of an Increment Borer.
    "It is most often used by foresters, researchers and scientists to determine the age of a tree. This science is also called dendrochronology. The operation enables the user to count the rings in the core sample, to reveal the age of the tree being examined and its growth rate." Increment borer
     
    Acerholic likes this.
  13. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Totally forgot about that, well done Margot.
     
  14. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,212
    Likes Received:
    2,361
    Location:
    nr Orléans, France (E.U.)
    ... And it's better carried out by a confirmed professional :

    How One Man Accidentally Killed the Oldest Tree Ever | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine

    Dendrochronology is a fascinating field of science, it hepls dating wood retrieved from archeological sites, shipwrecks, etc. I love history, archeology, science :

    Wood : Must Farm Bronze Age settlement - Wikipedia (watched a documentary on "Arte" last year, prob. from the BBC)

    Toothpicks : Toothpick Use Identified on Neanderthal Tooth from Poland - Archaeology Magazine ;^)

    My 2% neanderthal cents...
     
    Shin-Deshojo and Acerholic like this.
  15. Cinci5

    Cinci5 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Heres a picture of leaf plus shot from street.
    Thanks for the help.
     

    Attached Files:

    AlainK likes this.
  16. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Good morning. Atm IMO this is of the Amoenum group, but struggling to ID.
    My Osakasuki does look like this in late Spring early Summer.
     
  17. Doogie

    Doogie New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Al
    I like the twist in the trunk.
    It would be fun to Prune.
    I wonder if you can purchase tree insurance.
     
  18. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Good afternoon N, this was discussed at length on this thread recently.
    I might be paranoid?
     
  19. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    If it is a 141 year old tree, I think my secateurs would be trembling in my hands, lol.
     
  20. Cinci5

    Cinci5 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    New Jersey
    There is a really older woman on a estate down the road, she said that this area used to be all farm and trees before house’s were built. So maybe part of farm property trees. She said that people used to go to some Nursery in Kingston NJ to buy their products.
     
  21. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    That is entirely possible, we have trees where I live that were kept from the old woodland Copse where the houses that are here now were built in 1969. I remember them being large then. So your daughters tree maybe the age that has been given to her. Even builders understand the aesthetic pull of a brand new property with well established trees closeby.
    I think though that the reccomendation from @Margot posting may well have to be the best bet to get the correct age of this lovely tree.
    Although if it were me I would really not want anyone drilling through this wonderful specimen just to get an age. I would just say to your daughter to enjoy it for it's beauty, regardless of when it was planted.
     
  22. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

    Messages:
    2,751
    Likes Received:
    1,488
    Location:
    Normandie, France
    I think it likely it is a seedling, not a named cultivar, and also I think it likely to be A. palmatum and not A. amoenum (these are now considered different species). Older maples in the US are often not named, just nursery selections. It doesn't have the leaf shape of amoenum as far as I can see, and there are some palmatums with quite large leaves. Of course if a seedling it could be any kind of hybrid; these maples hybridize very freely. It will remain a beautiful mystery. What a marvelous tree.
     
    AlainK likes this.
  23. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    If on farmland, I agree you are probably spot on E, I cannot imagine a farmer wasting money all those years ago looking for a maple cultivar to plant.
     
  24. Cinci5

    Cinci5 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks everyone, I live and am back in Buffalo NY but gonna follow up next time I’m back there.
     
    Acerholic likes this.
  25. Acerholic

    Acerholic Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

    Messages:
    12,538
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Location:
    Hampshire England Zone 8b UK
    Good morning, I'm looking forward to the update on this fascinating story. A very interesting thread.
     

Share This Page