Hello, this is my first visit to this forum, and judging by other posts, this community seems very kind and helpful. I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada (apx the center of Canada) and right now we are experiencing temperatures in the mid-high 20s (degrees C) and occasionally low 30s as its summer here. About a month ago, I managed to get this lemon tree from a friend of the family (after my search for a new lemon tree came up empty-handed). I was given this tree as the owner was not sure whether it was dying or not and said I could have it if I wanted to try to nurse it back to health. When I received the tree, the leaves were starting to yellow. After reading numerous posts in this forum and doing research on the net, here's the recommendations I obtained: - could be an iron-defiency -> i purchased some ironite and have been spraying the leaves with mixture of ironite and water every time I water the tree (every week to week and a half or so)...do the leaves need watering more often than when I water the tree? - could be poor drainage -> I purchased a plastic pot with 6 drainage holes and repotted the tree with a 3 part wood chip to 1 part potting soil mixture, as it was recommended on this forum that this would provide the proper drainage (I also have a plastic dish container under the pot to "catch" the water that drains out)...when i first received the lemon tree, it was completely in potting soil and the pot did not have very good drainage as I did not see any water draining out of the pot about 30seconds after watering...now at least with the wood chip/potting soil mixture and the new pot, some of the water does drain through the bottom after about 30seconds of watering. I have yet to fertilize the lemon tree with an acidic fertilizer that I purchased, as I read on this forum that it would be best to let the lemon tree fully heal before fertilizing as it could make the situation worse. The lemon tree is on my deck (which faces East) and appears to be getting plenty of sun...can too much sunlight cause problems to a lemon tree? A month has now passed by and the situation does not appear to have improved...the leaves are still yellow and it seems that more and more are becoming yellow, about 5 have already fallen off the tree. I repotted the lemon tree again just tonight (I placed the rootball very close to the bottom of the pot now, as before it was about 3/4s of the way in the pot and I have taken a number of photos tonight as well which you can see below. I included pictures of the root-ball as I would like to know whether or not root-rot may be the issue here (I really hope not!) I also included pictures of the soil mixture I am using. I also bought a moisture meter it shows Wet or Moist depending on where I place the meter stick. Where should I be placing the moisture meter exactly for consistent readings? Also, i'm not sure if I'm watering properly...about every week or so, depending on the moisture reading, I will water will about 4L (this mixture contains 1 tbsp of ironite)...also the water I water with is chlorinated, I dont know if that matters. Also not sure if the tree "trunk" should be brown or green, as you can see in the pictures below, my trunk has a brown trunk. Please, any advice as to how to remedy or narrow down this problem would be really appreciated (hopefully these photos will help). Please let me know if any further information is required... Thank you! P.S. Anyone know what type/kind of lemon tree this is?
The fine webbing seen in some of the photos suggests the tree has a spider mite infestation. That would partly explain the speckling and yellowing of the leaves. All is not bad though as there appears to be healthy new growth on several of the branches. I'll leave the more detailed analysis to the experts. I don't think citrus can get too much sun in our northern climes. The leaves don't show any scorching. The tree appears to be a Meyer lemon based on the look of the leaves and the color of the fruit. If it is a Meyer, then the fruit should be more round than oblong.
Fresh wood chips can only assist with drainage. If you are looking for nutrition as well as drainage, then composted chips would have been the thing. A high organic, composted potting soil is what I would have used. Water running right out is of no use to the plant. Yes, it should drain, but it should retain enough moisture to stay wet for a couple of days. Nor would I worry about a moisture meter. Water it well and then forget it for a couple of days. When it feels dry a couple of inches down in the pot, soak it again. Too often, carefully measured water means the thing lives in a perpetual draught.
Part of the issue... or possible cause f future issues is planting the tree too deep. you mentioned that you placed the tree at the bottom of the pot. I unfortunatly did this.... and thankfully was able to correct it. NONE of the trunk should be burried and even a few of the roots can peek up from the soil. Good luck with your tree... best advice I can give... as a newbie... is to relax and slowly try to do one thing at a time... as believe me kindness CAN kill trees! I've only had my trees for a few months and had to fight a few issues. happy to say they've all bounced back like mad! All it took was relaxing and letting them be.... once I got teh best mix of soil.... that was the hard part for me
Lemon dreams: That depth part is critical!!! Often it is best to examine the trunk carefully to determine previous planting depth(the old soil line) and plant it 1/2 inch higher than it was planted previously. Citrus are notoriously shallow rooted plants. For this reason, in the groves, weed killers are used under the canopy, and never, never cultivating to keep bare earth under the tree. The roots are right up there near the surface.
It is true that citrus are shallow rooted trees. However, the root system of a containerized citrus tree will COMPLETELY fill the container it is growing in from the very top of the container to the very bottom of the container. The term "shallow rooted" has no meaning for a containerized tree. I really can't understand why you would re-pot the tree after you already replanted it correctly in the first place. All you did was once again put the old root system against the very bottom of the container, where it has nowhere to grow except around and around and around. When you repoted the treee, did you remove enough of the outer soil so that 1/2 to 1 inch of the roots were free to grow into the new medium? Also do not continually repeat spraying the tree's foliage time after time with a foliar spray application of iron, ESPECIALLY using the product ironite. In the first place, your tree IS NOT SUFFERING FROM A DEFICIENCY OF IRON. The symptoms of an iron deficiency are that *THE NEW LEAVES* have green veins on an otherwise yellow leaf, *AND* no green border around the veins. This is not shown on your trees leaves. You say the tree has not progressed, but I see the tree putting on new growth. Further it is quit normal for a citrus tree to drop 5 leaves over a period of a month or so. The leaves that fell, did the petiole remain attached to the leaf blade, or did the petiole remain with the branch? I don't know what you mean by irrigating the tree with "water that is chlorinated," if you mean water from a municipal water supply, don't worry about it. When a person begins adding this chemical and adding that nutrient, spraying this solution and spraying that mineral, potting, and then repotting, watering more or watering less, and so on, without knowing what is wrong with the tree, in hopes that they possibly will stumble upon a cure of the trees difficulty, they almost ALWAYS MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE. It is better to do nothing untill you have acertained the problem. Your tree is putting on new growth, don't keep worring it to death. About the only good measure accomplished so far, was the ORIINAL transplanting of the tree into the faster draining soil. Your tree's problem was the original owner. Water the tree deeply so that 20% of the water drains out the bottom, each time that the top three inches of soil feels mostly dry. If you use a dish under the container immediately empty it after each irrigation. Get rid of the water meter, it will get the tree into trouble. When spraying the foliage of any citrus tree with nutrients, use cleated trace minerals, or at least sulfates, such as iron sulfate. The old leaves might never return back to deep green, however, the new growth should show a nice light green coloration when new, darkening to a deep green when about two months old. I can read in you postings that you are concerned for the tree, but don't worry it to death. Take care. - Millet
Unless I missed it, thats why I posted about the depth because it was stated they planted their tree even deeper, at the bottom of the pot. BIG NO NO. I ended up with a rot problem, thankfully it was corrected! BUT, if they aren't watching... that could be part of their problem or pose AWFUL problems later on.
Lemon Dreams, you had the right idea., sorry I did not make my response more clear. As you said, what is important is that the upper soil level of the root ball be even or a little higher than when the tree grew in the nursery. The bottom of the tree's root ball should not be transplanted so that the roots are pushed against the containers bottom. When transplanted correctly the bottom and the sides of the container are wide and deep enough to allow for 1-3 inches of additional growth (depending on the size of the original root ball) and the top soil level still remains at the tree's trunk level or slightly higher than the tree grew in the citrus nursery. - Millet
Thank you so much for all of your replies (they all contain good tidbits of info and will no doubt help in diagnosing the issue). I am sorry for the replying so late, had lots of things on the go, but that's a poor excuse. Anyway, I've had a chance to implement so of your suggestions, so here's the scoop now: - I moved the root ball back up near the top of the container so that the top part of the root ball is almost level with the top of the soil mixture; however, in response to your question Millet, unfortunately I did not remove enough of the outer soil around the rootball so that 1/2 to 1 inch of the roots were free to grow in the new soil mixture, as I was afraid that i would damage the root system (the soil around the rootball is quite compact, I'm not sure if you can tell by the pictures of the rootball above)...by the way, from looking at the rootball photos, are there any symptoms of rootball present? - After moving the rootball up further (and adding some more soil mixture), I watered the soil with 4 litres of chloriated (tap water). I have not applied any more Ironite to the tree yet as Millet, you have stated that the symptoms do not appear to be an iron deficiency. However, you stated that when spraying the foliage with any nutrients, to use cleated minerals. The bottom of Ironite states that it is Chleated and shows a percentage of 7%. If the yellowing is not an iron deficiency, what do you believe to be the cause of the yellowing? EDIT: referring to this link http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/CH142 , the yellowing somewhat resembles that in the picture under Salt Injury...if salt injury is the case, what can I do to remedy it? - I will stop using the moisture meter and will use the "finger test" instead and will deep water when necessary. - FYI, my soil mixture is 3 parts Western Bark Mulch to apx 1 part Peat-based All Purpose Potting Mix...is this a good mix for lemon tree purposes? - I have yet to fertilize the tree, I purchased Plant Pro Ever-Acid Fertilizer (30-10-10) though, when should I begin to fertilize...I was waiting until my tree is completely healthy, as suggested in another thread, however, I do not want to starve my tree if it needs fertilizer. Any suggestions as to when I should begin fertilizing? - I sprayed the leaves with tap water after watering the soil, is this necessary and if so, should I do this more often than when I water the soil? - Ah one more thing, I thought the leaves on lemon trees should be sturdy...all of the leaves on my tree appear to be limp and droopy...is this a symptom related to the yellowing? Once again, thank you all for the help so far, I really appreciate it!
just to reply to your soil medium question... being in Canada its sometimes hard to find what others may use and recomend. what I found that REALLY worked, all my trees started doing amazing in it (I was formally using mainly a pine bark mulch mix). My mix is 3 parts orchid mix to 1 part soil. the orchid mis is kinda expensive but my trees love it. never saw my trees so happy and perked up. you can buy orchid mix at walmart, 10 bucks a bag... it does 2-3 of my small trees (1-1 gallon 2- 3 gallon pots) EVERYONE has different mixes they use. what works for some, doesn't always work for others. with this mix,m for me, its amazing. I'm even abler to leave my trees out in heavy rains without the pots seriously bogging down. I has serious issues with the pine bark mulch getting TOO wet and holding it in. and in turn, had a lot of leaf yellowing and dying of my trees... roots. I am still amazd at how great my trees are now! almost thinking of entering our cities garden competition under the other catagory for backyard balcony gardens. I mean what are the odds someone else is going to have a patio FILLED with citrus in my city? hehe :) Great luck with your tree!
Millet, You asked: The leaves that fell, did the petiole remain attached to the leaf blade, or did the petiole remain with the branch? What does it tell you in either case?
Skeeter, When a citrus leaf falls from the tree because of normal reasons, the entire leaf blade and the petiole abscise from the branch and fall. Many times when leaf drop occurs due to stress only the leaf blade falls and the petiole remains attached to the tree. - Millet
That means I have a problem with my recovering mandarin. It is dropping a few leaves, but leaving the petiole. I am fairly sure the problem is water. I will have to come up with some way to keep the sprinkler from hitting the tree, but still water my yard. Thanks again.
can someone please respond to my above questions...it's been a week and no further reply, besides skeeterburg's petiole discussion? It's not a demand, just a request as you people are so full of knowledge here and I am very new to this =o)
ChrisL, I thought your questions had been answered. If you have a further particular question, please ask and we will try to assist you. Sorry you had to ask a second time. - Millet
ChrisL: Just some thoughts relative to your statements - - - Until your mulch is composted, it really is not of much nutritive value. ALso, the bacteria that 'compost' the mulch require nitrogen and will deplete any available N in your mix. The idea of a growing mix is to transport water and food to the roots of the plant. The idea that bark particles can do this as well as plain soil is questionable. The droopy leaves are no more nor less than you would normally expect when you transplant ANY plant. They suffer shock, and, in many cases, the original roots were supporting a finite number of leaves. Excising(removing, damaging) roots without a corresponding cut back of the leaves and stems formerly supported by those reduced roots, can only result in under-nourished stems and leaves and subsequent wilt. Since your tree is in a pot, I might suggest that you get a small package of water soluable fert for 'potted plants'. Use this at half strength at the recommended frequency for 3-4 weeks 'til new roots have begun to form. Then fertilize according to directions. No, the drooping is not related to the yellowing. (see above). I hope I have responded to at least some of your questions. Try us again. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say 'we'll keep tryin'.
Hello everybody, I'm new here, and i would like first to apologize for my english. I'm not english speaking and i may make a lot of mistakes. I promise you though that i'll try to not do so. I am kind of new too with citrus. Four months ago, i started a lemon tree, a grapefruit tree and a lime tree. So far everything is doing well. They are about ten centimeters tall and the leaves are really green and healthy. I live in Canada, in Ottawa and i'm gonna have to grow them indoor during the winter. Do you have any suggestions? Should i buy a Fluorescent lamp to give them some light. I was wondering too, what size of pot i should use? Should i use fertilizer, are my plants not too young? And finally, lemon_dream, i decide to try the mix you use, 3 parts orchid mix to 1 part soil. I've just made the mix but then i realised that when i water the plant that the regular soil goes away with the water. I fear that only the orchids mix is gonna stay. Moreover, the orchids mix is just wood's pieces, hortical carbon and stuff like that, it doesn't look like other stuff (compact earth), is it okay? Can citrus grow and make roots in a mix like thator should i wait until my plants are bigger (real tree) to do that? Finally, i was wondering if one of you could tell me aproximatly how fast my tree is suppose to grow because i have nothing to compare. (for example, Ten centimeters after 3 months, 20 after 6... (two centimeters a months), i don't know if it's possible or if it is completly random. Otherwise does one of you have some pictures of differents stages of the grewth of there plants, to compare.) Thanks in advance for your answers, and i have to say that your differents topic about citrus have already teach me a lot, thanks for that too. Bye, Gwenn
