Hi, New to the forum...Thought that I would reach out for some help...

Discussion in 'Maples' started by Dork Fish, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    1 gallon nursery pots. There is part of one in the first picture of last post...
     
  2. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    I would say the mix should drain much more freely, I know mine does.
    I'm quite brutal with the roots, either completely untangle and trim or at the very least a saw off the bottom and each side if they are very pot bound. However, as Andrea mentioned, now is not the time to do it. I would re-pot into larger pots, make sure it's free draining and then sort out the roots early next spring before budding takes place.

    John
     
  3. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    For it to drain quicker...

    Should I add more bark?

    Or add more granite/turface?

    So you think I should go bigger than 1 gallon pots? If I am understanding this correctly... repot the smaller trees (without disturbing the roots) and them pull them again next spring?
     
  4. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Andrea, I'd try adding a bit more turface and/or grit, but do it in small amounts and then test. Also, when you first wet down the soil, it will take longer to drain because it first has to absorb the water (ie, go from dry to wet), so that may not be the true drainage ability of the mix.

    For now, if the roots are really tangled, you can most definitely work on loosening them (a wooden chopstick is great for this), but don't do any pruning, etc. That should be saved for early next spring IF you re-pot them again (some may need it, but most/all likely won't). And if they're in band pots now busting at the seams, 1g should work fine. You don't want to over-pot them - that creates its own set of issues. :)
     
  5. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    Yep, don't over pot, the compost stays sodden, I've made this mistake in the past. I generally find the roots fill the pot by the end of the season when taking small steps up in size. I root prune aggressively if I don't want to pot up any larger, but do this around late February.
     
  6. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Got it! Yeah, I thought about the dry soil thing too. These had already been watered some but I will try running some more through them.

    I posted a couple of pictures of the roots of the smaller trees...do they look okay to move over to 1 gallons or leave for another growing season?

    I don't mind repotting. I just want to provide for the best growth possible. Does root pruning promote this?
     
  7. Jaybee63

    Jaybee63 Active Member Maple Society

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    1, it removes the roots that coil around the sides of the pot, so if I'm not stripping the soil mass, this is the next best option. 2, if you want the plant to stay in the same size pot, it's a way of creating space for new compost and roots which stimulate growth.
    I've got braver and braver each year, some newish grafts with tangled coiled roots had near enough 70 % of the roots removed, usually due to a girdling root having to be removed and most of the root mass coming from the removed root.
    I've not lost a single maple treated this way. I think it's key to have a fpvery free draining compost and water frequently.

    John
     
  8. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    I want to be able to eventually get a bigger pot very few years.

    I am going to play around with the mixture a little bit. I think I might have too much organic in it now. I did a 50 organic / 50 gritty mix. I think I am going to cut the organic down a little and try that.

    Our weather is really crappy this week. Temps this week: 54/32 50/30 54/32 53/36 54/35 55/37 54/36. Having a hard time finding outside spots for these. Now I am worried about theft :( I have been keeping them inside under a fluorescent light. grrr

    I wish my deck didn't get scorching hot in the summer...

    I was going to put these under my red bud and crab apple in the back of the yard but I am worried someone will walk off with them.

    I have a clear, hard top gazebo on the Southern side of our house. I think it may get too much sun...

    :( I thought I had all of this worked out...
     
  9. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    I thought I would post my tress...

    I only took pictures of five of them. I will post the others later...

    Corallinum
     

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  10. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Katsura
     

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  11. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Purple ghost
     

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  12. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Yezo nishiki
     

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  13. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Beni schichihenge
     

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  14. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Is it too late to do a phyton27 drench on these?

    Also, can I start a fertilizer? Ie: hydro gro "grow"

    Also, should any of these be staked?
     
  15. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    Nice looking trees! I would probably stake (loosely) the Corallinum at the very least, unless you want a sideways tree, lol, and any others that are really 'gangly' until they get a bit more balanced branching and/or the trunk thickens up some.

    Typically, you spray the phyton 27, not do a drench. Spray in the shade or in the evening so it can dry overnight; not supposed to be detrimental to the leaves when the sun shines on them, but why risk it? As you've just repotted, no fertilizer for a month or two, you don't want to burn the roots. And no fertilizing after either mid-summer (July is usually the latest you want to fertilize) and/or the temps get consistently above 85-90 - the trees go semi-dormant when it gets very hot, so if you fertilize during this time not only is it not doing anything for the tree, it also could burn the roots.
     
  16. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Thank you!

    What do you use for staking?

    Sounds great!
    thank you
     
  17. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    I usually use bamboo (can find various lengths and diameters at Lowe's, HD, etc; when I order plants, sometimes they come with stakes in the box to help prevent damage, etc, - I keep those for future use). You want some movement so the trunk can build strength and not be reliant wholly on the stake. I use garden twine, twist ties (like from bread bags), etc to loosely tie the trunk/branch to the stake, or you can get something along the line of these:
    http://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-Plant-Ties-Green/dp/B0057567U0
    http://www.amazon.com/Gardeners-Blu..._sim_op_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=16X4Z8AYKJN6V7KNP0TW
    http://www.amazon.com/Gentle-Plant-..._sim_op_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=16X4Z8AYKJN6V7KNP0TW
     
  18. AlainK

    AlainK Well-Known Member Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    Stakes: I don't know what Maplesandpaws uses, but I use bamboo, I have plenty in my garden.

    Nice collection you have to begin with in the windy city. Maybe pruning some to one third (removing the top two-thirds) would help create a more "tree-like" effect: most of them are developping a long main leader branch, cutting lower down would help them ramify.

    For instance, the 'Katsura' could be chopped drastically at this time of the year. This will lead to a more compact "canopy", a better sight than a slouching thin leder branch IMO...
     

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  19. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    So this is the decision moment, to some extent you get to think about what kind of tree you're going for.

    Cutting to 1/3 as Alain suggests will have a number of beneficial side effects: the main stem will thicken, and the growth from the new leaders will be more vigorous. The tree will put on foliage faster, which will in turn help the roots to establish.

    However, you'll have a multi-stemmed tree, essentially, and if you want to bring it back to a single trunk you'll have lots of pruning to do later on. Really just a question of what your ultimate aim is!

    As for fertilizer, IMHO, I wouldn't beyond a small dose of osmocote with the repot. They're already a tad gangly, I think they need to grow into themselves, if you see what I mean.

    cheers,

    -E
     
  20. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    I may have some bamboo. I will have to look. So how tall should I make the bamboo, 18"? How far up the bamboo do I stake?

    Okay, I am going to look for my bamboo.

    Thank you! I did loose one (Shirazz). Not sure what happened. It just withered away...

    Pruning, I am definitely going to have a problem here. I have no idea what to cut. I am open for the help!

    These will be eventually going to zone 8b. So what ever I do now will need to benefit them for the hot humid weather.


    Errr, what am I looking for?... Well that I really don't know. I love the twisty, curving, branching habits of JM's. But, I have no idea how to prune them to bring out each individual beauty. If you guys are willing to suggest, I am willing to try it.

    These benefits sound great to me.

    So multi stemmed mean more shrub like? I want them to look aesthetically pleasing, just do not know how to achieve this.

    So what should I do with each of these five that I posted????
     
  21. emery

    emery Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Well, I guess this is a complicated subject, "to prune or not to prune" as said the Bard.

    The trees have a "natural" shape. In "Japanese Maples" (4th Ed) it's broken into "mound, round, upright, wide". Sometimes the "upright" category can be successfully trained as a standard, although that doesn't sound like what you want. I have seedlings that try to make this form on their own, although because of the nature of the scions harvested grafted maples are less likely to do so.

    Still as with all pruning it's better to decide what the final effect will be before you start cutting.

    Not all Japanese maples have "twisty, curvy" branches, some are quite straight and upright, Katsura is an example. But if you leave them more or less alone except for corrective pruning they'll make aesthetically pleasing trees, twiggy interior growth tends to die out on its own leaving us with a good structure.

    Your trees are very small, maybe the grafts aren't even completely healed yet? So you've got time to think about it still, even if you do proceed as Alain suggested with some or all. But really the best advice is: once you cut it off you can't put it back, so best to take your time before hacking away...
     
  22. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Following pics of what can be acheived over the years
    Orange dream 3ltr planted out in 2006 to present day as emery states certain trees have certain traits, some grow better than others and definately put more 'wood/leaf' on over the years.

    This was left untouched until 2014 and looked terrible, then major cut back and this is the tree now last pic, more pleasing to the eye but will be lighty trimmed later in the year to acheive a more rounder look.

    With J/M there is alot of work involved,but the rewards will please you for ever.
     

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  23. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Yeah, I kind of forgot that I ordered a lot of upright this round. I think I just got lost in all the info, lol. My brain didn't absorb that part... haha. So, if it is an upright, I get that it will be just that. I love them all! I want an assortment of all shapes and sizes.
    I want all kinds of diversity/textures.

    What if I don't know what I want it to look like? Are there questions that I should be asking myself to determine this?

    Yes, I guess i am not good at describing!! Lol. I like interesting! Textures, shapes, etc... it is in my brain, but I can't get my fingers to type it! :)


    Yes, I agree. Take my time...

    Would you guys agree with Alain on the Katsura?
     
  24. Dork Fish

    Dork Fish Member

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    Roebuk,

    Very nice examples! absolutely beautiful! The fact that these will be eventually going to the great state of Mississippi (hurricane belt), I'm not sure if I can plant in the ground like yours. But beautiful anyways. I might have to get someone to help me design my garden...

    This is the part that scares me to death! How do you know what branches to trim, etc?

    Is this something that you just learn over time?

    Is there a good book on pruning?
     
  25. ROEBUK

    ROEBUK Well-Known Member Maple Society

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    Another example with regards pruning and staking out, first pic of my Yezo nishki (good choice you made) as you can see there is a large leader branch coming out to the left.

    Second pic shows where i cut the main leader branch at the junction of the two leaf nodes ,this in turn encourages more outward growth this spring and will give the tree more mass and form over the years.

    What i will also do later in the year is if you look at the picture where i cut the leader out you see the two growths either side, if you count up the branch stems on both sides their are two pairs of leaves then another leader stem,well dependent on how long this leader grows i will do exactly the same again and just cut each leader out, then the following year you will get the same sideways growth appearing, and you just basically keep repeating this process.

    Finally third pic i have just carefully slid a bamboo cane down the side of the container,trying to avoid the root system,then brought the outward sticking branch in and up to the cane and lightly tied it up, so this in turn brings shape back into the main bulk of the tree.

    This tree will be staying in a container for a very long time, does grow very tall if ground planted ,but will be trimmed and shaped over the years and moved on in about 2/3 years to a larger container,so you can see that if you do this repeatedly over a period of time you will end up with nicely formed symetrical tree,otherwise you will get branches growing in all directions,then the tree becomes unsightly,like my orange dream did in 2014.

    Personally i would have gone and selected my own young trees if possible,i do realise the US is vast and you could be buying from hundreds of miles away,so this is impossible to do, but the more of a tree you buy that looks like what you are after form and shape wise, the less work you have to do in coming years.The trees you have are fine if some what leggy but will respond in time, don't do anything with them this year see how they develop, they might just supprise you.

    Again hope this helps in some small way
     

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