I bought 3 two-year old dwarf fruit trees (Mexican Lime, Improved Meyer, and Washington Orange) from Four Winds Growers. They arrived yesterday and I made, what appears to be, the cardinal sin of using a Miracle Gro potting soil. In put them in 10†plastic containers that have plenty of drainage holes at the bottom (pot elevated from the water basin to allow air and drainage). I live in Minnesota so needless to say they will be kept indoors until the temps are consistent enough where they can be transitioned outside on a deck…hopefully sometime in April. Since it has only been 1 day, I’m going to re-pot them with the correct soil. I read the Millet’s post about proper/ideal Citrus soil (wish I would have read that yesterday): 4 parts Coconut Husk Chips (CHC) and one part peat moss. I’ve called nearly every Nursery/Greenhouse place in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and I cannot find CHC. I finally found some people selling it on E-bay and want to make sure The description reads: "These have been pre-washed and pressed to reduce leachable salts and sold in 1 gallon Ziploc bags" Cost is $3.99/bag + $7 shipping = $11/bag Damn expensive but it’s the shipping costs I guess. Link to picture Any other ideas where I can get CHC cheaper? I’d need enough to create soil for 3 trees in 10†pots. While I know I can use Pine Bark Chips, I keep reading they degrade much quicker than CHC so I’d just assume buy CHC rather than hassle with repotting more frequently. These dwarf trees I bought were pretty expensive (mainly due to shipping costs) so I want to make sure I provide the best chance for these trees to produce fruit….which starts with the soil. Do I really need a grow light??? Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
elguevon, the description of the E-bay CHC sounds OK, put overly expensive. You will get a much better deal directly from the importer to purchase your CHC needs (this is where I purchase my CHC). You should contact: The Crystal Company 72 Leffingwell Ave. Saint Louis, MO 63122 Tel: 1-800-845-4777 Crystal Company's coconut chips are pre-washed, and pressed three times. The pressing is almost as important as the washing which removes the salts. When a chip is pressed after washing, a lot of additional soluble salts are squeezed out PLUS the chip is cracked, which allows them to be rapidly re-wet when you irrigate/fertilizer your tree. They sell CHC in 2 cubic yard bags, which expands to twice the size when the bag is opened. I would recommend you purchase 1/2 chips. When you receive them you will need to soak the ships in a solution of magnesium sulfate (Epson Salts) and calcium nitrate. The rate is 1 ounce of each chemical per 5-gallons water. Soak over night. Crystal Company will ship UPS. I am very familiar with Four Winds two year old trees. Four Winds Growers, generally grow a nice tree. Your tree is grafted on a trifoliate type of root stock which is a dwarfing root stock. These type of trees are good to grow in containers. However, with a Four Winds 2-year old tree a 10 inch container is a bit to small. If this forum can be of any further assistance, feel free to ask. - Millet
Ordered the CHC from them per your recommendation...hope to have it mid next week. Appreciate the info and your advice! Thanks!
FINALLY I finished re-potting the Dwarf Fruit trees I got a little over a week ago. What an adventure to piece together everything I needed to get the growing medium to your specs....primarily due to it being the middle of Winter and most place are closed or don't stock a lot of things now. I pretty much have enough stuff to plant 30 dwarf trees thanks to the 50lb bag of calcium nitrate, 2 Qts of Epson Salt, 1 bale CHC, 50lb bag of coarse sand, and 1 bale of Peat Moss I had to buy...couldn't find anything smaller and tired of looking. I soaked overnight the CHC in 10 gallons of water with 2oz of Epson Salt and 2oz of Calcium Nitrate (double batch since I need to make 3 containers worth). Combined CHC, Peat Moss, and Course Sand at a ratio of 4(CHC):1(PM):1(CS) and placed in container with Dwarf Fruit Tree. Watered the container to thoroughly soak the soil for the first time...and WOW...what drainage. HUGE difference. Did I miss anything? Was waiting 1 week to re-pot the tree detrimental to them? I figured it couldn't be any worse than what I did initially planting them in miracle-gro potting soil. Questions: 1) Should I really pack tight the soil medium to the root stock? I just lightly pressed the soil into the root stock so it was stable. 2) I bought Osmocate (19-6-12). Is this the correct feed to use? Directions say apply 1/2 (one-half) tbl. every 4 months. I have a 12in container. Should I apply this immediately as I just re-potted or when should I make the first application ( if any)? Never thought this would be so much work...hopefully the hard part is over. Now watch...they'll die =( At least I got the materials now to try again. :)
I have never used coarse sand as an ingredient with a 4 to 1 blend of CHC /peat moss mix. However, DO NOT WORRY the additional addition of 1 part coarse sand to the CHC/Peat will be FINE. Sorry you had to purchase a 50 pound bag of Calcium nitrate (CaNO3). I could have sent you a pound, but if you grow tomatoes CaNO3 is an EXCELLENT fertilizer to fertilize tomatoes with. Be sure to tightly close the bag of CaNO3 because it is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb moisture from the air and if not tightly closed, you will soon have a 50 pound solid block. Be sure to re-read the label instruction on the 19-6-12. One half tablespoon seems rather a small amount. Many fertilizer labels list different fertilizer rates based on whether the plant being fertilized is a light, medium or heaver feeder. Citrus is a heavy feeder, so if the different rates are listed on the label use the heavy rate. Further, the nutrient release of Osmocote is actually based on temperature, and NOT on a period of time. Therefore, during the summer you will need to again feed the trees sooner than the four month period. Perhaps as soon as two months. Lastly, you will need to dissolve one teaspoon of Epson salts in a gallon of WARM water (must be warm because Epson Salts doe not dissolve in cold water) every 4 months and apply it to the growth medium. This is because Osmocote does not contain magnesium. I do not remember if 19-6-12 contains trace elements or not, look on the label. If not, trace elements will also need to be applied. You should begin fertilizing the tree at this time. With CHC blends there are two methods of irrigating the tree. You can either pour the water over the surface of the container, or soak the medium by placing the container in a larger container of water for about 2 minutes (CHC re-hydrates very rapidly). Otherwise it sounds like you did everything correctly. I wish your trees a long and healthy life. If you have any problems in the future someone on this forum will be happy to help. - Millet
Having read this thread I called Crystal and have a 2 cubic foot bag of CHC on its way. I will get the MgSO4 from Lowes, I guess, along with CaNO3. I already have a bale of Canadian Sphagnum peat moss. My situation is: I have two improved Meyer lemon trees, one about 18 inches tall which I repotted after buying it about 3 months ago in regular old Miracle Gro potting mix (gasp!) as I knew no better at the time... and a slightly bigger one, about 24 inches which I just got and is still in its plastic container. Both were grown by Monrovia, I believe. The first one lost almost all its leaves, then recovered somewhat. I think I was over-watering it, or the soil was not draining fast enough, since it recently produced a bunch of little lemons but almost all of them turned black and fell off. There are two decent sized lemons still growing on it, and a few of the tiny ones seem to have made it through my ignorance... so far. The second one has a really good crop of lemons on it right now, which is what made us buy it really! It seems very healthy and happy in its current container, since we haven't had it long it enough yet to hurt it! So my issue is, I am worried that repotting them now, even using a good mix of 4:1 CHC:PM, may jeopardize the crop. Then again, my wife suggested that to wait till after we harvest might not be good either, since then we'd be transplanting it when it is "dormant". Thoughts? It occurs to me that in my rather sheltered Portland, Oregon location, which is either zone 8 or 9, we can leave them outside if we like, and doing so would make them stop producing fruit, whereas if we brought them inside they might well just keep on producing if cared for properly. However, the inside of the house is not well lit, and I would prefer to avoid getting a grow light unless I really need to. Greatly appreciate your advice, thanks.
The best time to transplant citrus is when it needs it--if it is in miracle gro potting soil-- I would say it needs it. If you are careful and don't damage any roots, it should do just fine.
Thanks, I will do it as soon as I get the CHC, then. I don't want to leave very much of the Miracle Gro in amongst the root ball. I have seen advice that says to completely soak the root ball in water before you place it into the new container, and that would seem like a good way to free up the roots. I was thinking of trying to gently brush or rub the soil off the roots while it was underwater. Is this a good idea? My worry is that no matter how gentle I try to be, inevitably the really fine roots will be damaged.
elguevon: Using CHC is a bit costly. CHC can last as long as 5-6 years. In the long run it is much cheaper. Millet introduced this concept a number of years back. This mix has help many container citrus growers grow citrus. I use a different method than Millets posting which is very good. I like a very long soak and washing. Dale
Millet - forgive my lack of of-the-cuff chemistry, and my current laziness right now. Am I remembering right that a 'salt' is a certain weak ionic bond (as opposed to covalent) that reacts with water such that certain ionic based organic reactions don't occur correctly? Wouldn't soaking them in the materials above, mixed together, refill with a salt? What is the chemistry going on here? (I'm a physicist with an organic chem room-mate who is out of state right now.) Thanks for the help with my lack of studiousness, Peace, Wolvie
Magnesium Sulfate and calcium nitrate are salts, but they are beneficial salts that the tree will use and they will replace salts such as sodium chloride that are detrimental to plants.
So I have the chips soaking in water with MgSO4 right now, but the CaNO3 has not arrived yet. I was thinking to go ahead and use the chips without it. The thought was, that as soon as received the CaNO3 I would just make up a batch of water with double or triple the quoted amounts (2 or 3 oz per 5 gallons) and use that for my watering until it ran out. Is this a reasonable approach? If so, any comments on the concentration I should use? Also, I just wanted to check - I should measure out the CHC while it is still pretty much saturated when I'm making the 4:1:1 mixture, right? Since it doubles in volume when saturated this seems like an important distinction.
The best answer is to soak in a CA/MG solution prior to use. However, most municipal water supplies contain calcium in the range of 40 PPM which will be helpful. I would not double or triple any nutrient. Finally, if you purchased your CHC from The Crystal company, the chips have already been soaked, rinsed and pressed three times. I would just go ahead and plant. Good fortune to you and to this tree. - Millet
Thanks Millet. I am testing the CHC from the Crystal company on some rooted variegated Citrons. I soaked for a day & they are doing excellent. This is the first I have really experimented with the CHC & will let you know how they do.
