help to maybe identify this one?

Discussion in 'Maples' started by rkburgess, May 1, 2006.

  1. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    This was sent to me a Acer palmatum 'Tsuma gaki'. That it is not. Any ideas?

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    Kent
     
  2. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    When did you get the plant?
    I also bought a 'Tsuma gaki' that looked very much like yours. I was very dissapointed. However the second year the leaves did look like a real 'Tsuma gaki'. My explanation was that the tree was (forced) grown in an environment (too much shade?) that was not favorable.
    I do not mean for sure that this is what will happen to you, but I would wait one year before drawing any conclusions.
    Gomero
     
  3. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    My only problem with that maybe being the case with mine is that the bark color is red and all the 'Tsuma gaki' I have seen have green bark.

    Kent
     
  4. Gomero

    Gomero Well-Known Member Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hi Kent,
    I was intrigued by your statement on the bark, so I went out and checked my two Tsuma gakis. The first one (the one I was dissapointed with the first year) has the bark and twigs green, as you say, and as can be seen in the first pic. However the second one has red twigs and reddish/brown bark, as shown in the second and third pics. Both come from the same reputable source that normally gets the scions from Japan.
    So, anybody else has checked it out?

    And, incidentally, my Tsuma beni has green twigs and bark.

    Gomero
     

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  5. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    It could just be clonal variation, the cultivar(s) consisting of more than one clone. This is not rare among old cultivars.
     
  6. Ota

    Ota Member

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    This spring, I bought one maple as 'Tsuma gaki' from esveld.nl. Now when it is in leaves I'm a little bit disappointed by its color. Also the leaves are more divided than one could expect for this variety. Is it really a 'Tsuma Gaki' or something else? What do you think?
    Thanks.

    Ota


    maple1.jpg maple2.jpg
     
  7. rkburgess

    rkburgess Active Member

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    It doesn't look like 'Tsuma gaki' to me. I con't help you ith what it might be though.
     

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  8. sasquatch

    sasquatch Active Member

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    Your tree looks like a Shigure bato

     
  9. krautz33

    krautz33 Active Member 10 Years

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    The tree looks like it might be satsuki beni. Light exposure may influence the looks of a tree, but I have a satsuki beni in full shade and it colors up better than that.

    Good luck

    Krautz
     
  10. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Ota, Some pics of the tree regarded as 'Tsuma Gaki" here. First pic taken May 9/08, second and third taken July 7/07. I may be mistaken, but arrived at a possibly temporary decision after looking at a couple of Japanese maple enthusiasts websites and members' discussions on the forum here.
     

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    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  11. Ota

    Ota Member

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    Thank you for your replies.
    But now I'm more and more confused :-)

    sasquatch: I don't think it's 'Shigure bato'. Look at leaves here http://www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2536
    They are different.

    Krautz: Do you think I can expect better coloration in shade? I was convinced of opposite. Could you send a photo of your 'Satsuki Beni'?

    chimera: I'm not sure if I understand correctly. So do you think it could be 'Tsuma Beni'?
    BTW I know the japanese website. Nice photos but I'm not able to read texts :-)

    What about 'Aki Tsuma Gaki'? http://www.maillot-erable.com/en/acer_aki_tsuma_gaki-121.php
    Does somebody know why the name is so similar in despite of its appearance?

    Ota
     
  12. paxi

    paxi Active Member

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    rkburgess,

    what about this doesn't seem to be tsuma gaki? Not arguing, just don't know enough about the cultivar, except the red tipped chubby leaves. Whatever it is, you've developed a nice thick little trunk on there.

    rereading your post - I may have been confused. The pic you posted is the example of tsuma gaki, correct? How did the tree you originally posted in 5/06 end up?
     
  13. Luke Harding

    Luke Harding Active Member

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    Hi,
    In my experience several Acer Palmatum cultivars have more than one accepted name in the trade (eg Senkaki and Sango Kaku). Could it be that this is the case with your Maple too?
    Also, Esveld is mentioned. The nursery there is regarded as being one of the best in Europe for Acers palmatum varieties and the guy in charge has written several publications on them. I would imagine his nursery would label its plants correctly.
     
  14. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Luke, any nursery can make a mistake in labeling. With all possible respect to Esveld, they have made several in orders I have received. And, showing impeccable honesty, they have in each case replaced free of charge plants that were not true to name.

    FWIW the plant doesn't look like Tsuma gaki to me either, not that I'm any expert at palmatum identification. But I would never ask for a replacement plant unless I was 100% sure.

    -E
     
  15. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Ota, No sorry , not thinking it's 'Tsuma Beni' at all. Not sure what your tree is, but would express your concerns to esveld with the photos shown, in case a mistake has been made. Thinking a young tree grown under nursery conditions ,possibly forced growth, may not look true to name. The poor quality pic shows 2 young leaves of tree thought to be 'Tsuma Gaki' today. 'Villa Taranto' leaves below.
     

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    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  16. Ota

    Ota Member

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    Thanks to all.
    Today I've send an e-mail to Esveld with photos of my maple. Here is a reply of Mr. van Gelderen:

    Whatever it is, it is not Tsuma gaki. Obviously we made an error here. In my
    system I will enter a replacement plant to be sent in the autumn. Please
    accept our apologies.


    It looks hopefully that I will have my desired 'Tsuma Gaki' :-)

    Ota
     
  17. chimera

    chimera Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Good to hear, honourable.
     

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