[[[Oops, can someone please move this to "Fruit Trees" - that's where I thought I was, but ended up in Citrus somehow - sorry.]]] Wow, I thought planting a tree would be fairly simple. Boy was I wrong! I know virtually nothing about gardening, trees, plants, and such (but want to learn). I had decided that I wanted to plant an apple tree or an american persimmons (d. virginianus, I think), at my rural property, for the wildlife to eat, but now my head is completely spinning with information and I need help badly. The main problem I suppose, is with the hundreds upon hundreds of apple tree varieties - for example, here: http://www.johnsonnursery.com/FRUIT PAGES/APPLES.htm Anyway, I want to plant this tree in late September or early October of this year, to get it to start growing, so it will bear fruit within 3-5 years hopefully, and frankly I do not have time to digest all of the mass of info out there, and need someone to essentially help me narrow my choices and tell me what kind of fruit tree to plant, to best meet my needs. Also, it would seem (I'm learning) that apples & persimmons are not "self-pollinating", for the most part, and so then I started reading up on other alternatives which ARE self-pollinating such as apricots, plums, figs, etc. But these seem to be generally less hardy, and I want something that requires the least possible amount of care (of course). I don't want to have to plant two or more trees, or bring in crabapple flowers for pollination either. I very well MAY get around to planting complementary trees for pollination, and probably WILL, but I don't want to HAVE to, if I get busy, etc. (I have many hobbies). But, then I read that SOME apple trees ARE self-pollinating - it has been alleged that Golden Delicious and Jonathons are two examples that are self-pollinating - and yet, in other places these same varieties are NOT described as being self-pollinating, so what gives? Anyway, that's when I threw up my hands and came here. Here are my goals, criterion, questions, and concerns: 1. My goal is to feed a sweet treat to the wildlife, particularly the deer. So the variety need NOT be particularly sweet for humans - yes I may eat a few, but that's not what it's for, and to a deer, anything sweeter than a leaf or twig is a sweet treat - even the tartest of apples. 2. What are all the varieties of self-pollinating apples, if any? Even if an apple IS self-pollinating, will it in fact nevertheless bear a larger, better crop if it has a good pollinating variety planted nearby as well? 3. I want a variety that ripens very late, in the late fall preferably, but at least mid-fall. 4. I am in central OK, which I understand is Zone 7. Anyone know if my soil ph is likely to be OK for them? Is September 23rd to early to plant? That's the Saturday I was planning to go plant. 5. Should I look at growing crabapples instead of apples? Aren't they hardier? What about these apple/crabapple hybrids that are popular in Minnesota? They are hardier, no? Or does it not matter to me in a warmer climate here in OK? 6. What about a semi-dwarf tree? Would this be preferable over a regular tree? They are said to grow faster and have other advantages. What are all the pros & cons of these? 7. I was planning on planting these just a few feet above a water-line of a bottom area that periodically floods in some years - will the roots go down so far that it will be too wet in those flood years? Would they be better off up on top of a hill, in the an area where oaks thrive (assuming I clear a 'hole' in the canopy for them to get sunshine)? 8. One of my goals is to have the tree require as little maintenance as possible, in terms of fertilizer, mulch, pruning, and whathaveyou. I want hardy and low maintenance! Sure I will water & prune the first few years, but I'd like to "set it and forget it" after that. 9. Given my goals, what are the pros and cons of planting an apple vs. say, an apricot, peach, nectarine, plum, persmisson, fig, or pomegranite? Or for that matter, a non-tree fruit such as blackberries? I want a large volume of a sweet fruit for the lowest maintenance possible, in a low area in very fertile soil in central OK. What's the best way to get there? P.S. Wild Persimmons do grow wild in central Okla, and even in this area (though they're much more common in S.E. Okla). So I thought wild persimmons a natural choice. But they are smaller fruit, and therefore I thought apples would be a better choice just in terms of volume of fruit yield for my deer. And moreover, there is a wealth of information on how to grow apples trees on the net; notsomuch for persimmons. And, I reason that there will be certain varieties of apples which are equally as hardy and adaptable to this area as a wild persimmon. Can anyone help? Thanks so much!
Check this link http://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/Pollination_Guide_Apples.html Yes, the crop will be bigger. Use a M7 rootstock which can stand this kind of soil Hope it's not too late anyway. Andre
Actually, no, the crop won't be bigger. What it will be is a lot easier to harvest, and the semi-dwarf tree will also take up less space. A regular tree has more fruit, but most of them are out of reach.
Thank you Michael for your precisions. You'll find here the different size of trees depending on the rootstock used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malling_series
Okay, thanks much! Yes, that's a big help so far. I did not plant the tree(s) as planned because I didn't have enough info (let alone time). So gonna plant in Jan or Feb instead it looks like. So *please* keep the answers & suggestions coming. 10-4 on the semi-dwarf - I like that idea so the deer can possibly reach up on their hinds legs and get them before they fall and before the birds etc. have already demolished them. So let's narrow the focus to the semi-dwarfs, of whatever fruit, apple or otherwise.
One other thought - you'll need to put a wire cage round the tree for the first few years, to stop the deer from stripping the bark off and killing the tree
The sooner you plant the better your tree will restart in Spring. I don't know where is your rural property but avoid frozen soil when planting. I would say that apple is a good choice for deers as Prunus (apricot, plum, peach, etc) could be too softy for them. COX SELF FERTILE could be a good choice for you. It's very tasty (even for you), ripens very late and can stand cool temperatures. Regarding the semi-dwarf rootstock, an other advantage will be to have your first reasonable crop within 3 or 4 years. More vigourous rootstock would take 5 to 10 years to give fruits.
OK, fantastic: -Plant soon -Place wire cage around tree -Cox self-fertile variety (sounds like a perfect choice; thanks) -Semi-dwarf root stock Now how much watering and pruning to do from there and when? And how do I mate the tree to the rootstock? Any other tips going forward? Thanks.
Immediately after planting, you need to water a lot (at least 20 liters, must be something like 5 or 5 gallons). Then artificial watering could be needed the first year if the area is dry. Pruning has to be done each year (end of fall or end of winter depending how low temperatures you have in winter). Regarding grafting, if you're not used to, you'd better buy a tree which is already grafted or try to find a tree nursery that can do it for you. If everything works fine, expect to have dozens of little apple tree in your area in 10 years thanks to the pippin propagated by deers.
Probably wait until Spring now, February/early March perhaps (it'd be mid-March in Michigan, after the soil has thawed). Firm soil back in place with your boot and give several gallons of water. Apply a mulch to conserve moisture and deter weeds/grass beneath the tree. I like to put down a couple sheets of newspaper, then a couple inches of mulch (cedar or other bark mulch), keeping it on the ground beneath, not against/in contact with the trunk. Consider using hardware cloth (available from Home Depot, for example) for your wire cage: it is important to keep rodents and rabbits from girdling the tree. Bury bottom edge at least an inch. Pear is another option, and they are somewhat tolerant of a brief occasional flooding. Roots that are flooded (without oxygen,) for some period of time during the growing season, will die, effectively being pruned; if there is three feet of ground that does not flood, then there should be sufficent roots to keep the tree alive and well. MM.111 is a semi-dwarf (about 25% smaller than standard) apple rootstock that can be recommended for Oklahoma. 'Arkansas Black' is a fall variety that could be recommended, ripening mid-September. Probably most varieties are partly self-fruitful, but all will produce more fruit if another variety of overlapping bloom is near. You might consider planting a couple seedling apples close together: they will pollenate each other, and unique seedlings might be more interesting for your needs than a grafted variety. Here is a nursery with some interesting pears, apples, and other plants for wildlife:http://www.morsenursery.com Hope this answers a few of your questions.
