Propagation: Hardy ,late budding grape rootstock.

Discussion in 'Grapes and Grape Vines' started by drycold, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Hi , I am searching for a grape rootstock for Marquette Grape cuttings that i have. I hope to find a rootstock that will delay budding and possibly add hardiness any suggestions?.
     
  2. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    Marquette will bud out earlier than frontenac. There are some rootstocks from
    the University of Minnesota breeding program that would be worth trying.( ES 15-53, MN 1065, MN Rip 64. You could try
    using pure V.riparia eg. Manitoba 37 or 89 or use Beta or Valiant as a rootstock.
    In theory it might increae the hardiness by about 5%. There U of Sask has a fruit breeding program that is working on this as well as others like myself. It's al fairly new
    since a lot of these varieties have only just been released in the last 10 years.
    Valiant seems to work well since it is hardy to about -40c and they use beta as a rootstock for table grapes in Harbin China. They get -30F there.
    If you want more info i would recommend purchasing Nothern wineworks it's a great reference for growing grapes in northern climates

    www.northernwinework.com or check out the Minnesota grape growers association website

    www.mngrapes.org


    Cheers

    Kim
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  3. tasty

    tasty Member

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    Hi, Drycold nice to see another winnipegger! you can by a valiant grape then top work graft it by cleft grafting it or t-budding what I'm doing next spring.

    tasty
     
  4. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Thanks for the info Prairiegrapes , any tips on which of the grape rootstocks you suggest bud out late which may allow the scion to avoid spring frost. I have grafted Frontenac to Valiant ....but i am not sure yet if it is delaying bud break as this will only be the second spring that i can observe the vine. Can MN RIP 64 rip ....89 be purchased in canada? I will look for the book as well ..Thank you
     
  5. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Hi Tasty , nice to see your in winnipeg . I have grafted frontenac to valiant and i am waiting to see if there are any beneficial results. Marquette should ripen more here so i am hoping to delay its bud break to make it avoid early spring frosts.....we should keep in touch and share information. Thanks......Drycold
     
  6. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    Tasty/ Dry Cold
    Both Frontenac and Marquette are recent releases from the U of Minnesota grape program. There are some rootstocks that are being tried like I've mentioned. Some of the grape growers in Quebec will be using them. Riparia is also being used for rootstocks. It's good you both have done some work with Valiant. I will be grafting
    Somerset seedless onto Valiant/Beta this spring.

    Bert Dunn in Ontario

    http://www.littlefatwino.com/bertslist.html

    Has cuttings available although he has a lot of demand for his material. Have look at his list. Peter Salonius in NB also sells cuttings

    http://www.littlefatwino.com/peterslist.html

    Personally I think I would try using the Valiant or riparia material there in Manitoba.
    It's great to see guys botrh experimenting with the vines there. There will be a winery opening in Carman named Tobacco Creek vineyards. There's a lot of varieties you can try out and it takes time to see what works as far as rootstocks/varieties.
    It will be interesting to see what come out of the U of S program

    http://www.fruit.usask.ca/articles/Grape2009.pdf

    This article is a good read for you guys.

    I taught courses in 2009 on Northern Viticulture here in Alberta and will be doing some more in 2010. I would appreciate it if you guys let me know how you make out with your rootstocks.

    Cheers

    Kim
     
  7. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Hi Prairiegrapes ... I have ordered cuttings from both Peter and Bert ( great service from both! ) . I will be "playing" with Frontenac , Frontenac Gris and Marquette . I have been happy with the taste of frontenac and because i am a home wine maker have no problems dealing with the high acid ( I can add water and sugar to get the balance needed) , some small tweaks with rootstock may make these grapes more reliable in my location. I am lucky to have ES 1553, King of the north , mn 1094 , mn 1177 ,Valiant and Beta as a source of rootstock but the results will take a while as some are still cuttings. I can say Valiant as a rootstock seems to be very drought tolerant and Beta seems to except chip buds in the middle of August with a high rate of success. I Hope to find a rootstock to make the grapes bud a bit later so i will keep you posted...any help is greatly appreciated . Thanks again Drycold
     
  8. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Hi .....we have had an early snow melt here, so out in my yard i go and look at my vines. A vine which i thought was dead seems to have some green on the inside when i broke the end of the vine off. This is a DM8521-1 grafted on a wild riparia grape, maybe the vine shut down half way threw the summer because i started it early in the spring in the house ....in any case this will be interesting to see if its alive and pushes buds in the spring.
     
  9. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    Dry ColdI have some cuttings of Trollhaugen and Somerset. I will be grafting these to valiant to see how they do. The DM 8521 sounds like its alive. How does your other stuff look. My Frontenac and Cliche look good. If all goes well will have a nice crop to make some vino from.

    Cheers

    K
     
  10. drycold

    drycold Member

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    It is very early here , I would say 4 weeks ahead of our usual spring. So it's hard to tell how things have over wintered. I am keeping my fingers crossed on the DM8521-1as its should be super hardy . I do think the Frontenac grafted to Valiant looks good, the wood is green on the inside and pruning has not lead to bleeding so its still very dormant. I'm thinking Valiant will be a winner as a rootstock , just think about it ,if the scion dies your left with a grape thats still not that bad and makes a good wine if you can wait 3 years or so. As an indicator of where we are with winter some Tulips on the south side of the house have started to poke threw the soil. I think it would be great if you have some luck with the seedless grapes, i will keep you posted.
     
  11. drycold

    drycold Member

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    The grapes that have been pruned have started to bleed on April 11 here in winnipeg.
     
  12. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    How are the grapes looking. I have a nice crop on my Frontenac, Cliche has a crop
    and i will have a taste of Prairie Star this year. Clinton and Severnyi both have done well. Somerset has survived the winter.

    Cheers

    KM
     
  13. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Hi KM .... I am glad to report my DM 8521-1 grafted to a riparia grape is alive and well ,for some reason it had to push some new buds from the scion so it started a little slower than the other grapes , i think it had a fungus or a mildew last year that made it struggle . My frontenac / valiant did have winter kill and so did my ungrafted frontenacs , they both have flowers so it is hard to tell yet if the valiant made any differance. I have had some frustrations with trying to chip bud on to valiant grapes this spring , the problem is me or my timing , guessing i need more practice and info. I am thinking whip grafting on a scion gives you a better chance to make it threw the winter as with my dm 8521-1 which may not be around if i had chip budded it on last year. I have some Marquette planted so I will put their hardiness to test. I picked up a grape called Germanica ,which is sold as a early beta type.... do you have any info on this grape ? is it half riparia? wondering about its use as a rootstock possibly as it is early ,hardy and healthy. Glad to here you have some Prarie Star grapes mine are still to young and i hope you have luck with Somerset. There is problems here with rabitts and some kind of bug that is eating the leafs but all is well other wise. GH
     
  14. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    Germanica ripens about 3 to 4 days earlier than Beta. We have it here but i don't have much experience with it. Both Frontenac and Cliche have a nice crop this year. Not a lot of winter damage, but I have a nice sheltered site. Sabrevois has survived here. Louise Swenson is very slow growing so a rootstock would be beneficial here for this variety. Prairie Star is not vigorous but has survived the winter and there are some clusters for tasting. Somerset is not very vigorous. I have some Osbu it will have a small crop. If Germanica is hardy and early enough it might make a good rootstock otherwise i would stick with some of the V.riparia selections. Trouble is not much research is being done so folks like us are the "driving force" behind it here on the prairies. Tyler Kaban at the U of S is doing some great research. It will be interesting to see what develops there from their program and the North dakota program.

    Cheers

    KM
     
  15. Gardenlover

    Gardenlover Active Member

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    North American Grapes=Trash!
    sorry...the reality is the Vinifera is the creme de la creme of grapes...pure golden standard
     
  16. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    So what your saying is that we don't make good wine in North America.

    You might want to broaden your horizons a bit. There are some pretty nice wines made from non-vinifera grapes.
     
  17. Gardenlover

    Gardenlover Active Member

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    How do you know what I'm saying....when you don't even comprehend what I am talking about?

    Yeah, there are some good wines like Baco noir, Vidal which is not bad...I agree. But they are hybrids....meaning crossed with half Vinifera parentage!
    I'm talking about Vitis Labrusca and other inferior American Grapes suited for Jam and juice for Welches e.t.c.: i.e. Concord, Valiant, Bluebell, Canadice....e.t.c.
    these grapes can not compare to Vinifera table & Wine grapes.
     
  18. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    "How do you know what I'm saying....when you don't even comprehend what I am talking about? "

    Gardenlover
    Vinifera grapes are the standard by which most good wines are judged by. but there are some good hybrids that make nice wines. Table grapes that are labrusca and vinfera crosses are a different matter. There are some really nice grapes that you can grow that are really great to eat. This i know because i worked and was involved with a lot of the trials /research with these. I've also worked for several wineries over the years. Plus I have a family history of grape growing going back 4 centuries.

    I know a little bit about wine and grapes. The exciting thing about the new hybrids being developed is it allows us to expand viticulture into regions that generally weren't thought of as grape growing regions.
     
  19. drycold

    drycold Member

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    I have what i believe is a variegation chimera on grape leaves of a Frontenac grape vine coming from a single bud, if so it might make for an interesting looking abour plant . I have heard Frontenac tends to mutate easily ( like pinot noir ), has anyone heard of this before on frontenac?. Chip budded vines in the spring seem to be taking off now , i had given up on them as it seemed to take longer than i thought to see growth.
     
  20. northerngrapes

    northerngrapes Active Member

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    Frontenac does mutate easily (ie.Frontenac Gris) Pinot Noir is the same. Glad to see your stuff is doing well. Hoping to start trialing some of the new U of S material in spring 2011. Should be interesting.

    Cheers
     
  21. drycold

    drycold Member

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    Hi Prairie Grapes, trialing the new U of S grape material would be very interesting, any luck with seedless grapes making it threw the winter and setting grapes? If i send you a picture of my Frontenac with the leaf varigation would you give me your opinion , as it could be a disease i have not heard of , and if it is a mutation i would like to grow more as it would make a interesting looking plant. Drycold
     

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