Growing Pinus lumholtzii

Discussion in 'Gymnosperms (incl. Conifers)' started by neobb, Jul 15, 2005.

  1. neobb

    neobb Member

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    Hi,

    Was wondering if anyone has any experience growing Pinus lumholtzii in BC, Washington or Oregon.

    I live in Vancouver BC and have a couple of P. patula which are nice weeping mexican pines. P. lumholtzii sounds like another nice weeping pine.

    Thanks for any stories.
     
  2. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Don't think I've seen that one here, but a small number of Pinus patula are being grown in Seattle and vicinity. 1990 winter (or a somewhat earlier one) basically wiped out the older set, current ones that I know of all comparatively small. Probably most often seen pre-1990 planting was several on west-facing wall of visitor center at government locks. These grew up from behind wall, well up into wind, then froze.
     
  3. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    As far as I know, it has never been tried properly. The species is unusual in that the altitudes it grows at are higher toward the northern end of the range, up to 2500m in southernmost Chihuahua, but around 1500-2000m in Jalisco. So the northernmost high altitude origins should (at least in theory!) be hardier than P. patula (they should be as hardy as e.g. Picea chihuahuana, which occurs at similar altitudes in the area).

    A trip to Mexico to collect your own seed would be the best bet, try around Guadalupe y Calvo to El Vergel in southern Chihuahua. The cones are probably ripe in the period January-March, though this hasn't been researched; some October-collected cones I was given from the El Vergel area were nearly but not fully ripe (and a November-collected cone from Jalisco was even less ripe). There also seems to be a problem with low seed production (most of the cones I was given were empty, only with blind and hollow seeds; the few filled seeds didn't germinate), so collect plenty.

    One other potential problem with growing the species is that it is adapted to summer rain and winter drought, so the PNW winter rainfall may well be unsuitable for it, causing root decay and also snowbreak in the event of heavy snow
     
  4. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    Excellent post Michael, where did you learn Conifers?
    I expect it from Ron to know his plants but you know
    your Conifers pretty well.

    The only thing I will add to the above posts is that
    this Pine will act much like a Pinus patula did, as
    Ron pointed out, with a long period of intense cold
    like we had in 1990 and again somewhat in 1991.
    We lost a few of them at our nursery because of
    the cold. The other thing is that this Pine may
    not be happy with the heavy clay soils in parts of
    Oregon. I just don't see people up there field
    growing this Pine much. This Pine will want
    relatively fast drainage from what little I've seen
    of it. We were not overly impressed with it for
    our area but for many areas of Southern California
    it should grow okay for people.

    Jim
     
  5. neobb

    neobb Member

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    Thanks Ron,

    Is that lock the one in Ballard?

    Thanks Michael,
    I actually might go to Mexico. I think they can also be found in Sonora. I really appreciate your detail.

    Thanks Jim,
    I was wondering, do you still grow P. lumholtzii at your nursery?
     
  6. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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  7. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    We had 9 fairly young plants that came in to us
    that originally came to our source into the US
    as seed from an arboretum. As I remember it,
    the seed did come from Sonora, not from
    Chihuahua. We did get some seed later that a
    worker brought back with him but we felt that
    Pine was the Pinus chiapensis - Chiapas White
    Pine instead.

    We did not propagate these Pines as for us they
    were monitoring plant material, watch them and
    see what they do. I believe 3 of the original plants
    are still at the nursery planted in the ground but
    the new owner will not know what they are but
    Humberto is still there and will know where the
    Chiapas White Pines are. I am no longer involved
    with the remnants of what is left of the old, original
    nursery and have not been for almost 9 years.

    It seems to me that you will have to go the route
    that many others have had to do and that is either
    get some cones from or get seed out of Mexico.
    There may be some sources in Southern California
    and possibly Arizona growing the Lumholtz's Pine
    but I just do not see it being grown even remotely
    on a grand scale as of yet and may not ever have a
    huge following as only a few select gardens and
    Pine collectors will ask for this Pine by name.

    Jim
     
  8. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Likewise, probably not ever listed in North American wholesale catalogs (<1996, anyway) as I don't see it in Jacobson, North American Landscape Trees.
     
  9. Michael F

    Michael F Paragon of Plants Forums Moderator 10 Years

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    Hi Jim - not if it was from Chihuahua or Sonora; Pinus chiapensis is a southern Mexican species
     
  10. mr.shep

    mr.shep Well-Known Member 10 Years

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    I should have been more clear. Humberto is
    from Chiapas, Mexico and brought back seed
    for us to germinate and grow. He was under
    the impression that it may be what we already
    had at the nursery, Lumholtz's Pine but his
    was the Chiapas White Pine instead as we
    later learned.

    Likewise, probably not ever listed in North
    American wholesale catalogs.


    I agree with the above. Even today this Pine
    is not very well known at all.

    Jim
     
  11. neobb

    neobb Member

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    Thanks everyone for the info.

    Thanks Ron for the great pine hunting trip in Mexico link.

    Ron, have you looked at pines in Mexico?
     
  12. Ron B

    Ron B Paragon of Plants 10 Years

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    Sorry, no, have only seen slides of trip described on conifers.org.
     

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