Finally! A real solution for treating bacterial infections.

Discussion in 'Maples' started by JT1, May 19, 2016.

  1. Houzi

    Houzi Active Member

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    That's true.I guess we have a choice,unlike some commercial growers(fruit etc.)who can't afford to risk infections.Good to see you took the Boo Hoo out of Bi Hou :)
     
  2. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi John, thank you for sharing your new experiment and congrats - it works and seemed to work well.
    So from going through these trees saving, have you noticed any different in the leaf color before the infection and after it recovered?.
    Also do you think one can use this tea as prevention instead of remedy?.
    Thanks, steven
     
  3. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    You're welcome and thank you!
    I have not noted a change in leaf color or shape after treatment. But I have noted in some varieties that during an outbreak and before treatment the leaves can be smaller than normal and irregular shape. We have used it for prevention in a neighbors Japanese maple that experienced transplant shock and defoliated. We have also used it as a preventative in bihoo and some of the trees that were hit the hardest after our worst winter in history. We have also used it as a preventative in trees that are known to be susceptible to powdery mildew, leaf spot, tar spot, rust, and trees that are know to have aphid, scale, and leaf hopper problems.

    We have found this tea to be a safe organic treatment for anti fungus, anti bacterial, and a safe systemic against pests. Since we do not know the effect on pollinators, to play it safe we do not use it on anything in bloom.

    Funny story, my wife re-used a tea container and accidentally confused it for my tea. I drank some and realized quickly it was not my tea! i did not continue to drink it (obviously) but I did not get sick. Its not for human consumption, but its safe enough that I have drank some by accident and had no issues. With that said, I certainly would not drink a full serving ;-)



    Here are some pictures of the ugly living dead. Kagari nishiki was so bad that after a few treatments it did not leaf out until July (4 months late) after the worst winter in history. Now 3 seasons later it lives on the side of our house that people seldom see. Here are some pictures from this spring to show all the treated pseudomonas. To add insult to injury, 5 years ago this tree was planted on the property line and our neighbor used a whole bag of fertilizer on their back yard (10 times the recommended amount of scotts weed and feed). Killing their small area of grass and damaged and defoliated our kagari nishiki (we removed it and planted it in safe soil and used black tea to neutralize the fertilizer and left plenty of black tea bags over the surface area of the roots...good to know if you or your neighbor accidentally over fertilize). That was the first sign of a pseudomonas infection, but we did not have an effective treatment at the time just black tea to neutralize the fertilizer. needless to say this tree has had a rough life...

    This tree is much slower to heal (actually the slowest) but you can see wound wood forming in some of the infections that have turned grey. This also supports the hypothesis that slow growing and weak trees are slower to recover and heal over. Three seasons after treatment (and subsequent treatments each season after) we still see the matte black in some areas. Healthier trees would have healed over by now and would have lost the matte black after the first to third treatment.
     

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    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  4. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Here is okushimo update. For comparison, the photo after the first treatment:
    124658-0199b7aecb72b6cd530034acf49622b0.jpg
    Here is a photo from today, before the 4th treatment:
    124659-c13697765e98ea94ddaa8887f8ef9c74.jpg
    At this point i think only the upper right branch will survive, as it is fully leafed out and growing. the small twigs on the upper left are finished. The jury is still out on the back center branch as the small leaves from the other days photo are starting to fail.
    124666-0d83beeb8b0f4d24b2a9103ef119ed4c.jpg
    The right thing to do for this tree would be to get it out of a bonsai pot and into the ground, but at this point I want to stick with it as a case study.
     

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    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  5. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Thanks again for sharing. I am sold and I can't wait for this tea product is available for our JMs planters. Even though last winter was not as bad as the one you had but i still have a few failed to make it. Thus i wish I have this tea avai. to give it a try. You know how it feels when we see our trees get sick and didn't make it. So please keep me in the loop when you have it on the market.
    PS: who knows the tea that you accidentally drank could keep you healthy and stronger :)).
    Steven
     
  6. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Here is an updated picture of Mikawa yatsubusa. This tree had a Pseudomonas outbreak in about 50% of its trunk and canopy. First two are from early Spring and the last were taken today.

    124670-2222aca180a44145e2ca9592da974236.jpg
     

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  7. Shami

    Shami New Member

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    I think if you are not using controlled chemicals (as it sounds from what you say - wife's herbal remedy) there is no limitation to sell and no costly licensing requirements. If made in powder form, may be distributed anywhere.

    Patent protection should not take too long and only need to file to prevent copying. Wording should be with advice of lawyer as patent makes formula available to public.

    I only have small experience (mattress business !!!) so please don't take as definitive advice or just take as rambling and ignore but what I would do is patent and bring to market as quickly as possible. You never know what others are researching and big companies will only pay what they have to, i.e. if you have discovered one possible solution but expose a general concept, you will not get anything from it.

    If your barrier is addition of a controlled substance or commercial product, you could patent and offer for sale the herbal remedy and leave to consumer to add complimentary parts.
     
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  8. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Thank you for taking the time to share your experience, we really appreciate it so much!

    I like the idea of offering the herbal remedy for sale and leave to the end customer to add parts. For example, to save weight and reduce cost we could sell the ingredients in a large tea bag and the end customer can add water and brew. Or send a concentrated powder and just add water.

    I know for certain the dry ingredients will work as that is what I provided for my Dad's treatment of his Autumn moon. The concentrate or powder would need testing, as with most herbal remedies freshness equals effectiveness.


    My hypothetical question for those interested in using the product; would you be interseted in brewing it yourself if it offers a significant savings in product cost and shipping?
    Or
    Do you prefer a more expensive product and limitations on shipping liquids which drives up cost for a product that is ready to use?

    Thanks in advance for any input.
     
  9. maplesandpaws

    maplesandpaws Active Member

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    If it's something as simple as adding water to the dry ingredients, that would get my vote - I'm all for saving money, and really, how hard is it to add water to something and mix? I know of no gardener that does not have a watering can or old pitcher for just such a use.
     
  10. bub72ck

    bub72ck Active Member

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    I would much prefer a lower cost item that requires some effort on my part (brewing or mixing). I would also think a dry product would keep longer than something in liquid form as well.
     
  11. maplesmagpie

    maplesmagpie Active Member

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    I like the idea of brewing the tea myself, too, as long as your testing indicated it was as effective. Shipping liquids is expensive.
     
  12. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    I agreed with all three comments above. I like to brew them myself, too.
     
  13. JT1

    JT1 Contributor

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    Thank you all for taking the time to provide your feedback! I really appreciate it!


    Here is an updated picture of Kagari nishiki. This is one of the worst hit by the winter cold and before that fell victim to my neighbors fertilizer accident that killed her lawn and almost killed the tree.

    The first 3 are from earlier this spring and from one of the post above for comparison...

    This is a close up of the same area from early spring and then today for comparison
    125070-d661faeea422507e5f3d8a23d15c528d.jpg 125073-520c7a890f7c7efce0316dd3934ba3c4.jpg
    The next 3 are from today showing how much the tree has filled in even though it had a widespread bacterial infection that was treated. (keep in mind the widespread outbreak occurred before the treatment was developed and once treated the outbreak although widespread, quit spreading and turned from glossy black to grey.)
    125071-45699d90339a825885d4edd6f869f2b8.jpg
    125072-96bffd2c8ceb33452dd25cd48f466ad3.jpg
    You can see some dieback at the top of the tree just at the center two tips that will need to be removed (in the photo of the whole tree), otherwise the tree over-wintered quite well considering its challenges.
     

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  14. Atapi

    Atapi Active Member

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    Hi John,
    I really need help from your tea remedy YESTERDAY. In the last two months i have lost 4 JMs (Tsuma Gaki - one my favorite, Tamuke-Yama, AS-Moon rise, Inazuma (spel!)) due to the pseudomonas (i think!). First their leaves turned brown/dried then the black sign began showing on the some of the branches... tree begins to die out although i have tried to prune as much dead branches off but it may be too late. BTW, they received the same amount of watering from the rest of other JMs.
    Any suggestion is appreciated, thanks. steven
     
  15. esm

    esm Member

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    Hello JT! I stumbled across this thread doing some research on the psuedomonas infection in Japanese Maple. I've lost 10 trees since last spring. I've tried Phyton and ZeroTol.

    Since you begin the patent process in 2016, I assume you are near ready to launch or share your invention with the world? Can you please let us know where we might be able to purchase some of this "cure" from you? I'm willing to pay and expedite overnight shipping here!!!

    Thanks!
     
  16. Kathleen Zeren

    Kathleen Zeren New Member

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    I came across this thread while trying to figure out what to do about the canker which is killing woody plants on my property. My Japanese Maples are hardest hit. I would happily pay for the recipe of the treatment mentioned. I have some lives to save here! Please get in touch by private message. THANKS! Kathleen

    Yes, the photo of the stump is attached. Its practically growing right against it.

    I applied the pesticide around april or may and am just noticing the tree looking like it is dying on that same side the stump is on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2018
  17. ScottyB

    ScottyB New Member

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    JT1 do you have any update for us regarding your tea remedy?
     
  18. vbx

    vbx New Member

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    Another way to help with bacterial and fungal infection is to spray the tree with colloidal silver. It's expensive though! You can make your own (ionic silver) which is cheaper.
     
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