Has anyone purchased from this eBay seller? http://stores.ebay.com/Cal-Maples I have never purchased a maple from eBay so I'm a little nervous. Thanks
Yes, and wasn't happy with the plant. I would steer you away from buying such a young plant. To me it's worth the money to buy a one gallon or larger plant from an online retailer with a good reputation. An inaba shidare from this seller for 20 dollars will be a first year graft on a standard. A few dollars more and you can buy a nice one gallon plant that is probably two years older.
Do NOT waste your money and JM passion on ebay. I bought one on ebay in the spring of 2005 from a reputable seller (still selling). What I got is an extremely small (6-7 inches tall) plant with extremely weak root system. In fact it was grafted on a one-year-old rootstock. I regret that I did not add $4 - $5 to buy a one-gallon plant from a nursery - a few more dollars would have saved me probably 5 years to watch that tiny thing to grow up.
Not all the maples on ebay are bad. There are good nursery's to, some that are on the maple resourse links here on the forum. Always check the seller out before you bid and read the fine print before you buy a one gallon tree for $15 and find out it is 6 inches tall.
Personally, if I have not seen the plant, I would not buy it, eighteen inches tall means nothing, a newly grafted scion could grow eighteen inches in a season whilst the graft has not properly healed, the thickness of the plant could still only be one quarter of an inch or so, ask to see a photo of the plants they are selling, not a mature specimen as shown in the gallery photo.
I have bought a lot of trees there, I don't have time to look the sate over for a tree. Yes they are small if you buy a small tree, >they tell you if it is a one year graft, and if they don't it is. The size of the trees are almost always listed so you know what you size to expect. I live in an area that charges outrageous prices for maples. so I have little choice. I have never seen a one gallon maple locally. I have seen many very good grafts from eBay nursery stock. I have never had anyone stonewall me on a question, I think it is a bit more personal dealing eBay. There are only two eBay nurseries that I will not buy from, but even those have replaced the trees that I did not except. Of these two sellers that sent weak trees, and yes I did threaten their children, send new trees right away they don't want the negative feed back, and they get a bit chocked up when you mention there kids. One send two two trees back. I have had my worst problems from non ebay nurseries. I'm joking about the kids, I only talk to there wives that always works especially with contractors,like plumbers or HVAC contractosrs find his wife and your problem are over.
Hi Richard, Thanks for defending some of us ebay sellers, like me - eastforknursery.com. I am a small nursery - no employees and the internet has helped me to survive through winter when typically I have no cash flow. I started listing on ebay to help advertise my website. Gradually, I have added new and rare cultivars to my website. I don't make alot of money on ebay because of all the maple competition and my maples are generally larger so I ask for more money. Thank god for the internet and maple forums like this one. Sam 'The Maple Lady'
I don't know why eBay needs to be defended, yet it does. If you want to buy something you have a score card sitting right in front of you. It tells you exactly how the merchant is treating their customers, not only by the number of positive and negative feedbacks but what each person thoughts on the transaction. How many people would give their local grocery store a 98% satisfaction rate, I sure would not. I have made purchase on eBay that came from well known nurseries and some not so well know, and I didn't see dimes worth of difference between the two. At one time I did have an uneasy felling about PayPal, but I found that they can bend the rules when they hear a good argument. I know feel safer shopping on the net especially at eBay and Amazon. I do fine the Garden Watch Dog to be of some help, but not like the info I get from eBay. Their feed back program has been repeated many times on other e-merchants sites which allows for easier buying decisions. My last purchase in 2007 was for a Acer Palmatum 'Pink Filigree Lace' find that somewhere else for 25 bucks. As to the prices I don't know how they do it for so little, I don't think I could make a living selling on such a small margin.
There are a few keys to successfully buying on ebay: 1. know what to expect BEFORE you buy. Don't expect a huge mature plant if you're paying $10, and READ THE FINE PRINT. 2. do your research. If you want a specific plant, RESEARCH that plant. Find out what it has sold for before, both on ebay and elsewhere. 3. check the seller's feedback. There ARE ways to game the system, but you can still get a feeling for the seller by reading the comments that others have left. 4. be PATIENT. If a specific plant price gets jacked up in a bidding war, LET IT GO. It will almost certainly be offered again, and it may be much cheaper next time. Also refer back to #2 here. I have bought a fair number of plants on ebay, and I'm rarely truly disappointed. Do your homework first, and everything will probably be okay. :-)
I do feel that people that are members of this forum should get some preferential treatment when it comes to selling plants to others. The reason why is that they are or will be held more accountable for the plants they sell. There is a way to get back at them for some of their shenanigans should they desire to not keep things on an even keel. There will also be some undue criticism they may also face due to factors beyond their control as to what we do with their plants afterwards. Some of the time it is not that we bought a bad plant, we just did not know what to do for that Maple once we had it. A good way to look at the big picture is ask this question: when we see that one 30 year old specimen, how many others never made it that far to get that old? A lot of one and five gallon Maples never made it that far along in years. The biggest single responsibility of any eBay seller is to tell the prospective buyer the truth when asked such, as someone we know asking the seller did they graft that plant and never tell us they did and then we find out that they had the plant come in as a liner from someone we know. If the tree came from Stanley & Sons or if the tree came from Buchholz & Buchholz then tell people that upfront as it leads to credibility of the seller that is offering plants for resale on eBay. MountainMaples has some of the same plants I have from both Maplewood Nursery and from Henderson Gardens. Should they ever tell someone that their source plant came from the same source as mine and not from some other grower in Oregon then I will be happy to be a reference for them. Why? I probably know their plant better than they do! The problem we have and we've seen it happen is when someone will use a photo of an adult or mature plant that is not theirs to sell their one year old graft. We have no way of knowing if the Yubae they are offering is the same as our plant and it is our photo we posted in this forum of our tree they are using to try to sell their trees online. I can tell you this much that it is very doubtful that their source for their one year grafts came from the same wholesale source we got our tree from in Oregon. Our tree was about a 15 year old tree when we brought it in and it has been in the ground for 15 years. Who else has one that old? It makes sense to use our tree as a foundation to sell others but are they the same tree and that none of us know for sure. You see if someone wanted to sell the Ghosts and they can make mention that their plants came from Talon then we would give them priority over someone that does not tell us who their plants came from. Why? We are much more likely to get what we are paying for whereas from another source with no knowledge of where their plants came from we may be buying one thing and getting another. I have always felt that we should give bona fide sellers that are members of this forum first priority when we want a Maple. They will be on guard not to mess with us as the power of the keystroke can lead to their undoing. We've been members of eBay since 1998. We've seen even professional sellers get zapped by unruly people leaving feedback that was totally uncalled for. In this forum if the seller makes the same mistake often enough or tries not to hold themselves accountable for their plants they are offering then we have a recourse to let others know they may not be a source we would want plants from in the future. A seller that is a member of this forum has to have real backbone and for that I give them a lot of credit for sticking their necks out while putting their name on the line that most anyone can come back at. There was a California seller that became a member of eBay that bought out a friend of ours entire fresh grafts and all their one and two gallon plants from a source we know very well in Central Oregon. All they had to do was mention their source for their plants and we probably would have made some bids on their Maples on eBay. I will say this much that 50% of the Maples we bought for people on eBay are not what those Maples were represented to be, not only that but less than 50% made it to the next year for people and thus we stopped all of our buying of Maples online a few years ago due to people telling us one thing and we ended up with quite another, or their plants they were selling were guaranteed dead plants when we got them due to disease issues. Even from sales away from eBay and from direct purchases from their personal web sites. Unfortunately, this is something we have to learn the hard way but it is a good lesson for us and makes some of us go back to paying the money for those time established five and fifteen gallons again. Jim
Mr Shep is alway right on, however I have had worst luck buying trees other then on eBay and I am running at about fifty fifty. I spoke with a well respected grower just a few days ago and I was told that they were not using a sterile potting mix for which I was shocked. They don't sell on eBay, and to even mention that would be a great big joke to them. However they may compensate for this by only selling trees with a caliber of no less then 2 cm. I almost never bid on eBay with out using a proxy. I just go a warring I am on battery power, I will post my proxy on the maple society forum.
I am not saying to others not to buy Maples on eBay as there are some plants coming in from growers that have been in the nursery business for several years and have track records in Maples. I am saying, just like us buying antique art glass or antique porcelain like we did and have been for many years on eBay with many items we are rather pleased with, screen the sellers and ask them questions about their plant they are offering for sale and always ask for a money back guarantee. The sellers that will give a one year guarantee are the ones to best deal with. Any Maple can perish on us soon after we get it. If you are not sure of the seller after contacting them then check and see if they are members of their state association of nurseries. If they are not a bona fide nursery then it may be wise to stay away from them unless we know who they are getting their plants from and are willing to roll the dice for that name of Maple that we cannot find available through conventional sources. Even when we buy the name, we do not always get the right plant is the persistent problem and many times it is not the sole fault of the seller as the plant may have been sold for many years by the wrong name. This is why sourcing is so important in that we can sometimes trace back what the Maple should be at times based on who had it and to whom it came from. Several Maples were called one thing when people first got them and later it was determined that the right name for the plant was something else. Those of us that have been in the nursery business have seen it happen often enough. I gave up answering private messages due to others asking me about what their Maple is that they just bought or to tell them about a seller they got a bum steer from. First thing is that you bought the plant as is. I have no control over that and I will not be put in the position again of being someone's authority that I do not know well. Secondly, a seller that you got a bad deal from may be a seller that I know and like. When you bid on eBay you are on your own. Make contact with the seller beforehand to better know what you will be getting should you win the auction. Any person buying antiques will almost always ask the seller about the condition of the piece, even when stated in the auction, as we know that when we look at the piece for sale in a different light we may see the crack or the chip in the glass or porcelain that severely devalues that piece. If we do not ask and we get a damaged piece upon arrival then who do we have to blame but ourselves for not being judicious in finding out beforehand what problems there might be. Lots of people paid good money for newly made items that were supposed to be 100 years old. It is not eBay's position, nor it is their responsibility to monitor each and every transaction but clearcut hoodwinking should be administered to. We have not ever had it happen to us, so I cannot say that marshalling of eBay by eBay is necessary. So far they have found it not to be imperative for them to do and I agree with them. If there was such a thing and there should have been, the four of us would have been "Power Buyers" a long time ago based on proceeds that have changed hands due to us. Jim
Since 2000 I've bought and sold art glass and ceramics eg: Teco, Galle, Longwy, Boche, Fulper, Rookwood etc. With over 500 transactions, a few exceeding 5k, no problems. I think I've bought from all of the maple vendors. Like most dealings expect to receive what you've paid for. Ebay is very dynamic There are shady sellers but market forces (savvy ebayers) force them to do business on pricing rather than reputation. Between the artwork and maple tree experience I've learned that Ebay is a valuable venue to expand your collecting horizons. Just as in collecting art acquire what interests you from sources you've grown to trust.
I'm not sure there are any guarantees when it comes to japanese maples. I've lost two of the 15-gallon nursery trees in the last two years. Both had been in the ground for about four years. Both died suddenly in the heat of the summer. Both developed bark problems that likely led to their demise. That was a few bucks down the drain. Don't get me wrong. I've also lost probably a third or more of the young grafts I've purchased via eBay and other on-line vendors. A lot of these trees will languish for a year or two before they go down. Probably one of the worst experiences I've had was with an advertiser in the Society's newsletter. Complaints about shipping damage (poor packaging) and questionable cultivar identification were simply ignored. One of my favorite trees is what I belive to be an Higasa yama that I purchased about three or four years ago from an eBay seller that is still active. It has grown vigorously and is now almost the size of one of those 15-gallon trees when I purchased them. Ironically, I purchased it as a Kashima! Did the eBay vendor blow me off when I emailed her after the tree leafed out? Nope. She sent me another tree of my choice on her dime. Was the second tree really what she claimed it to be? Not sure, but it looks right to me. Did it survive in the long run? So far. Have I lost other trees that I've purchased from her? Had to check my records, but none yet (she's the only internet vendor I can say that about). Would I buy from her again? Sure.
As with Idacer, I agree. I have lost acers in 5-10 gal containers from reputable nurseries, and I have gotten ebay maples that I have lost. On the other hand, one way to weed out vigorous cultivars from those that are not is to get a small, grafted acer. Some simply take off, even though they are tiny. I'll use Kinran as an example. When I purchased it from ebay, it was about a foot tall with they grafting band still on it. It leafed out and looked healthy and has continued to thrive. In a year or two I'll be able to put it into the ground, but even in a container it looks good. The cost is great for experimentation. But really, as far as supporting maple growers, doesn't everyone spread their buck around? I mean, I have bought from probably 10 different growers (at least). I have also had two bad experiences from growers who advertise in the Maple Soc. magazine. One shipped two trees that looked like they had been just thrown in the box and the other sent a plant that looked dead when I got it, but they would not respond to my email at all. I just recently discovered the Garden Watchdog site (I know, probably everyone knows about it but me). That is kind of a good way to "shop" for mail order growers. Plus, as everyone mentioned, the rating system on ebay is excellent. However, I haven't ordered from ebay for quite awhile because of the biggest problem as someone mentioned above. Time...At age 58, if I buy a one year graft and it thrives, I'll be 68 before it even looks like a tree! HA. So, bottom line, buying a one year graft is a young gardener's game, and I find I'm spending more for a larger tree this year, even if I have to pay higher shipping costs. THere are so many factors that go into buying maples, everyone is different. Kay
I have a system for keeping one year grafts in line. I re-pot them using a lot of sharp sand, drench the roots with Phyton 27 and put them right next to my back door so I don't forget them. I didn't figure this out until late last spring. I think the main reason I kill my trees is three fold, poorly drained medium,( or the water sat on top of the pot for a few seconds) not transitioning them to my climate ( the Sun will fry a maple hear in a hour) too much fertilizer or let me say (by using fertilizer.) I have found that keeping new arrivals in very filtered shade is important for the fist year or two. I use a 30% aluminum shade cloth on second year stock and it seems to work much better then a 40 to 50 % sun block or the traditionally used shade cloth. I don't have full sun anywhere on my property just direct sun.
Now we are talking, based on some of the posts above. Many times when we buy five or six or more Maples from a grower or from a seller, we know from learning this the hard way that we will lose some of them. It is the ones that we do not lose, that do well for us is what makes this a crap shoot that may not be all that bad for us. In two years of my experiment of buying two year grafts from people online I found that some cultivars have indeed surprised me, some plants I expected to have problems with and others have held their own. I am not going to tell others not to buy plants this way but it has to be known to them that they may have some losses from these plants coming in. As we become more aware of what these plants do for people then we can see by looking at the plant whether we really do want that Maple or not. Buying on faith from a seller does not always pan out for us but buying on faith from a seller we have a good rapport with does make us feel much more comfortable buying from them as then it is not a you bought it and now it is off my hands but you bought it from me and I want that plant to do well for you. Essentially we are now into what separates the proverbial men from the boys in Maples in that it does matter if the person that bought that five gallon Crimson Queen from a retail nursery for $149.99 loses that plant within a year. Heck, it matters if they lose the plant five years later. It matters to me if they lose the plant 10 years later. Anyone can graft these plants and sell them as liners to other people but how many of those plants ever get up to a five gallon in age? Some of us know the percentages based on the cultivar and sometimes from who grew the plant. Every time I was asked to bring in Maples from Oregon I was to bring in 5 five gallons of each Maple. Why? In case we lost one or two of them. If we want to monitor that Maple we have to have numbers of plants to do it. One plant generally tells us nothing but have 5 five gallons and in a couple of years later have several one and two year grafts on a uniform, selected, rootstock can tell us a lot about that Maple. Then when someone asks why is my Geisha or my red form of Matsugae throwing out an abundance of vigorous leaves that are off color and much larger in size than the older leaves are then we may have a better idea what to tell him or her if we have that Maple and have seen it for ourselves in our plants. Not all nurseries bring in Maples to sell but bring in Maples to monitor. I know of one nursery in particular that never tried to sell Higasayama to anyone but did propagate Hikasayama instead feeling that the industry standard plant was one that had a higher degree of mortality for people than the other. As it was stated to me, "I can't be selling that one plant as it will die on people but the other Maple has a much better chance to live in a landscape". The same reasoning why Filigree was not ever sold by that nursery but Silver Lace was after a period of years of cleaning, freeing, that Maple up from Verticillium alboatrum before it was released to people. Jim
Hi, I too sell maples via my website and ebay. I have heard good things for the most part of Cal Maples. They are a little more expensive than I am, but they do offer a wider selection of Acer cultivars. Sam eastforknursery.com
Quote from Mr. Shep "You see if someone wanted to sell the Ghosts and they can make mention that their plants came from Talon then we would give them priority over someone that does not tell us who their plants came from. Why? We are much more likely to get what we are paying for whereas from another source with no knowledge of where their plants came from we may be buying one thing and getting another. I have always felt that we should give bona fide sellers that are members of this forum first priority when we want a Maple. They will be on guard not to mess with us as the power of the keystroke can lead to their undoing". Thank you for saying exactly what I think. I am a small grower of rare and unusual cultivars and Talon is my source. His quality and reputation is without question. I am a one woman operation with arthritis in my hands so I cannot do my own grafting, although LOL I still try. I am offering a 15% or more discount to members of this forum. I guarantee that my maples will arrive in great shape or I will replace the maple or refund the money. I offer a replacement maple for only shipping if one of mine dies within 6 months and 50% off to replace any maple that did not survive after that period. I provide planting and care instructions in writing. I use only a sterile potting mix with a root drench of Python 27, plus I add Micorrhizal beneficial fungi innoculation for strong roots. I stake each maple when it is potted into a one gallon container and restake and prune yearly to have the best shapped maple possible. Last year I was running low on maples in larger size containers so I visited several wholesale nurseries to buy some. What I found was ugly, misshappen and blemished maples that I could not purchase because I would not resell that maple to anyone using my name. I don't want to be the biggest, but I want to offer the best maple for the best price. Thanks, Sam
Well this is a good little conversation going here. I think the big unknown is the quality of the rootstock. How do we know if it has been selected with the particular traits that makes for a strong tree. How many go to this level of expertises to product the most important part of a tree, it's roots. Is it not possible that any tree, plant or what have you, that was born in your neighborhood will do a lot better then one that was born on the other side of the world in a climate that is so foreign as some in CA. Take San Joaquin Valley, or Sacramento Valley in California, how odd of a climate it that compared to the rest of the county. It is hot and dry in the summer, very wet and chilly in the the winter. However The Big Valley is nice and cool at night, and I bet that is why it can sustain such a broad range of agriculture pursuits, be it sweet fruits olives or even maples. You can not beat that Modesto CA olive oil, especially when it comes right out of the press. The night time temp in the Piedmont where I live, do not always drop low enough to allow the tree to recover from the days heat, this is one big reason why we have failures. But if a tree is grown from seed here, it will adjust much quicker then one that is imported, especially a second generation tree.
Hey all -- Since we are talking ebay sellers, I will mention that I just received 3 maples from houseofmaples on ebay. All were advertised to be in the 8-12" range. two of them are within this range; the third, Oridono Nishiki, is actually about 2-3 feet tall. The trees were packed securely, in their pots. The seller responded quickly and in a helpful manner to email questions. So far, I'm quite satisfied with the transactions. In case you're wondering, I purchased Oridono Nishiki, Aka shigitatsu sawa, and Purple Ghost. :-) I'm about to get a few more maples from jherter. I'll report back on those when they arrive.
Whoa, there has been plenty of JM action on Ebay this week. Acer japonicum, 'Fairy Lights' one year graft $41! Year old Japonicum 'Giant moon' $29, 2 year Japonicum 'Aka omote' $20, an Acer buergerianum 'Mino yatsubusa' is $36 with 4 hours left in the auction. Seems like lots of activity for January. Definitely more dynamic than paging through the catalogs ... not recommended for the compulsive.
Yeah, two plants I wanted -- one year Toyoma Nishiki and one year Esk(imo) Sunset -- each went for about $20 this week. Boo hiss. These biddig idjits just run the price up and ruin it for us poor little snipers! ;-) Incidentally, I have now purchased Goshiki kotohime and Ukigumo from jherter. I'll report back on how they look once I get em.
Ebay has done a good job of programming people to win a bid, rather than buy. I have seen some crazy bidding on not so special JMs. Whereas, I do offer some maples on Ebay, I do so advertise my website. I would rather deal directly with another maple-lover, as a collegue and hopefully a future friend. Ebay has given wholesale nurseries the ability to sell recent grafts for 2 to 3 times what they would normally get. This is not why I am on Ebay, although I have had to tailor my items to fit into the 4" pot feeding frenzy. To be competitive on one level I take a 2 year 1 gallon and remove most of the potting mix and package the root system in a plastic bag for shipping Via Priority Mail. I do not like this method, but many ebayers are obsessed with low shipping costs. Being from Washington State, my shipping costs to the east coast are higher than most, but I think my repeat customers don't mind. Even though ebay rewards quick sales with records of shipping and feedback, I offer my ebay customers with the option of having me hold they maples until spring. I have to mark the item shipped, per ebay standards, but I advise my customers to wait until they get their maples before posting their feedback. I am not worried about negative feedback and I haven't had any so far. I offer to replace or refund money if the maple arrives in unsatisfactory condition. As I sit and explain my philosophy in this digital age I really wonder if I am a dinosaur in a techno-world. Maybe I am, but I still get thrilled to get a call or email from another maple lover somewhere in the U.S. who shares the same joy and excitement I do when spring comes and our babies leaf out in wonder. Still offering a 15% discount to UBC Maple forum members. Thanks and keep the comments coming. Sam
