Disease on Orange Dream

Discussion in 'Maples' started by dicky5ash, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    Hello,

    My 10 year old+ Orange Dream has developed a patch of black and white horribleness.. it’s half way up one main vertical branch, no sign of it on other branches.. the branch is 1.5m long and 25mm thick at the point where the disease is located..above the disease patch everything looks normal.. would you cut the branch off 100mm below the infected area or treat it..the infected patch covers 50% around the circumference and is 75mm long.

    What would you do? It would spoil the form of the tree cutting..but if you think that’s the best option
     

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  2. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Good afternoon R, IMO your Orange dream is suffering from Valsa cankers. This occurs often near wounds in the growing season but shows more when tne leaves have dropped. The only option is to remove the infected branch about 3 to 4 inches below the wound. Others on the forum may have different ideas for ID and treatment, so don't go pruning just yet. Sorry I don't have better news for you.
     
  3. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    Thanks D, as I suspected.. I’ll hold off taking the loppers to it in case others have a better idea..
     
  4. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    Hello D hope you are well? Ive held of pruning that branch in case anyone had and other ideas..assuming there are none shall I leave the branch till March before I cut..I was thinking now isn’t a great time?
     
  5. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    Good afternoon R, yes all well here. Tbh I prune any diseased branches at any time of the year as I don't want it spreading. I then spray with a good fungacide or the ever popular Bordeaux mix.
     
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  6. AlainK

    AlainK Generous Contributor Forums Moderator Maple Society 10 Years

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    I agree : the sooner, the better. Apparently, our climates are not that different, a bit milder here, but in the past weeks, ups and downs : during periods when the temps are around 10°, I think there might be some sap circulating, so more risks of seeing the fungus spread.

    But I avoid pruning when it's below zero. Here, we had a couple of days below 0°, nothing serious, a few flakes that melted in the afternoon yesterday, but no more frost in the coming fortnight apparently.

    And I always apply "the ever popular Bordeaux mix" on the cut, as almost a paste, or the consistency of "gouache" (opaque watercolour).

    'Orange Dream' is unfortunately one of the most sensitive Acers to fungal diseases, from my limited experience and what I've read here and there.
     
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  7. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    @Acerholic @AlainK Thank you both, much appreciated. It’s a shame as it’s a main vertical branch on a 10year old tree.
     
  8. Acerholic

    Acerholic Esteemed Contributor Forums Moderator VCBF Cherry Scout Maple Society

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    That really is a shame R, but tbh I think if you left it you would lose a lot more and possibly the whole tree. Good luck .
     
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  9. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    Some litterature : https://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/10.1094/PDIS-09-15-0970-RE

    It seems necessary to feed your tree immediatly with potassium K . Even in winter !
    You can use a strong fertilizer for flowers and for bulbs , the strongest are K 32 or K40.
    Using alcool when you prune is (for this disease) efficient.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  10. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Y'know, I think I'd hold off cutting this. Especially as it would ruin the tree.

    Qualification: I have no experience with Valsa at all. Not quibbling with the diagnosis which seems right from what I see on the net. But I've never run across this on a maple personally. Have also been following this thread to see if any other ideas, but that does seem the consensus. Seems like a rare piece of bad luck.

    That said, it looks kind of contained. Maybe this tree is a good candidate for bark surgery, rather than radical pruning? I mean, if you lose it, you're hardly worse off than if you cut it down to a nub, right? So I think that's the way I'd go: carefully cut around the infected areas with a razor blade and remove anything infected. Then treat with copper pulverization weekly and see if healthy wound wood begins to form in spring. (It might be too late to do this now in the UK, so you would have to wait until after the initial flush.)

    Just an idea. -E
     
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  11. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    Thanks @emery this tree is jinxed it’s the same tree that had several large exposed nebari chewed..either by a wood pigeon or squirrel, these have healed amazingly well this year so I’m confident it’s a strong tree.. fortunately there are two main upright branches about 3cm thick.. I will have a look again but my feeling is that I’ve missed the boat for containment apart from lopping off the affected branch..if it was a sole leader I’d have tried as you say
     
  12. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    Good morning dear emery.
    I agree « this tree is a good candidate for bark surgery » as you describe it.

    My opinion is different for treatment. First use 90°alcohol. Make a little pad with a soft handkerchief folded in several layers, fixed with stick paper;
    (made as for your own finger). Maintain the pad impregnated with alcohol , add it some during one or two days. Then after drying pulverisation of cooper.

    The substrat of your tree probably d’t contain any potassium K.
    K deficiency must be corrected as soon as possible. Water your tree with a liquid fertiliser for flowers. An in spring a spoon of strong fertiliser for flowers.
     
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  13. Nik

    Nik Rising Contributor

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    Full disclosure, I don’t know much about maple pathogens. That said, I like emery’s and opusoculi’s suggestions. From what I have read on the subject, these things usually happen on weakened trees and you mentioned root injuries in the past. If the infection is localized only to the area shown, then the bark treatments and some fertilizer should be enough for a healthy tree to overcome this opportunistic low-level bark infection. I have seen similar things on seedlings, usually triggered by sunscald wintertime. They recover very nicely if they grow vigorously and the only remaining sign of the damage is prematurely gray bark that eventually blends in color with the rest as the seedling matures. If there are many areas that are affected, then pruning is probably the best way to go and as soon as possible.
     
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  14. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    Thanks this is helpful too.. I don’t believe there is a Potassium deficiency..I repotted the tree with lots of new substrate in June, including a good dose of JM fertiliser.

    @emery @ opusoculi Does bark surgery work on other bark tissue degenerative diseases such as Pseudomonas?
     
  15. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Hello Pierre, hope you are well. This is an interesting idea, I haven't heard of it before. Will this slow and dry out different bark infections?

    @dicky5ash , yes, mostly used for severe pseudomonas that doesn't respond to copper. But as for us mammals, surgery should ususaly be the last resort because of the risks to the patient, including re-infection. (Don't tell, but I confess practicing on some patients I didn't care about! :) )
     
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  16. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    -First question:
    you d’t know how the roots of your tree assimilates nutrients or not of your repotting substract.
    Conferring to this scientific abstract:
    "Valsa canker, caused by the fungus Valsa mali, is one of the most destructive diseases of apple in the primary production areas of China and other East Asian countries. Currently, there are no effective control methods for this disease. We investigated the occurrence of Valsa canker in 24 apple orchards in Shaanxi Province in concert with foliar nutrient analysis, and found that there was a significant negative correlation of leaf potassium (K) content with incidence and severity of Valsa canker. Fertilization experiments showed that increasing tree K content enhanced resistance to pathogen colonization and establishment. Apple trees with leaf K content greater than 1.30% exhibited almost complete resistance to Valsa mali. Field trials demonstrated that increasing K fertilization could significantly reduce disease incidence. Improved management of tree nutrition, especially K content, could effectively control the occurrence and development of Valsa canker."
    It would be a better chance for your tree if you add fertiliser K.

    -Second question:
    Valsa mali is a particular disease, scientific studies said alcohol is efficient on it (apply during some hours), your better chance is to apply.
    But Pseudonomas bacteriosis is different, Bordeaux mix is efficient on that, d’t change for alcohol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  17. opusoculi

    opusoculi Well-Known Member

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    Hello emery, my head and spirit is quite well, thanks, unfortunately my lumbar vertebrae are too old ! I hired a young gardner to do the job i can't, except for maples indeed .
    Valsa mali is a different rare infection. We must be confiant in science studies on apple trees; as i said too ‘dicky5ash', alcohol and K, it is actualy the only way to go against that particular canker. Even for other cankers cuprid solutions are the best treatment.
    I don’t know the evolution and the complete cycle of Valsa mali.

    I don’t understand why, for a while i had and have a taste for these mystery puzzles or trees détective story ...

    In this troubled times take care of you in « les souffrettes « .
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  18. dicky5ash

    dicky5ash Rising Contributor

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    Thank you guys I am learning.. I fertilised the tree in July with a good quality fertiliser when I repotted it. The tree was in the ground prior to that..I had to dig it up as it was being attacked by either a wood pigeon or a squirrel and it was getting a little too much sun in that spot. The damage to the roots has miraculously recovered.

    The risk with the repair being I will need to leave it to the spring before carrying the procedure out and it could spread by then another patch of black is 5cm lower
     
  19. emery

    emery Renowned Contributor Maple Society 10 Years

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    Ah, at least the important parts are well!! As they say, "Father Time" will have us all in the end. Bisous.

    Maybe I should tell the story about the old farmer who taught me to cauterize bleeding grape vines with a red hot poker? I did try it once, and it sort of worked. Kind of.

    If the sap is really running, probably best to stay away from the surgery for certain!
     
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